The 3-4? The 4-3? What Will The Cowboys Defense Look Like In 2012?
The real hot topic revolving around the Dallas Cowboys right now is the future of the defense. There are a bunch of theories and rumors floating around the NFL and the internet right now. Jason Garrett only added to the hysteria with his comments in his press conference last week.
"We played a lot of three-man line, and we also played some four-man line in different situations this past year," Garrett said Thursday at Valley Ranch. "We haven’t gotten to the point where we’re going to talk about what we’re going to play yet. We’re still evaluating the tape. ... Let us go through the process. You’ll see some of that stuff once we get back on the field."
On my radio show the other day I went over this a little bit. Basically what I take from the JG5000's comments, is that the Cowboys are having discussions about the future of their defense. They haven't fully committed to running the 3-4 defense that has been in place since 2005 when Bill Parcells installed the change.
That tells me that they are indeed thinking about the idea of moving back to a 4-3. It doesn't mean they will, but the idea has been planted and there is discussion going on around that topic.
I think it is a wise decision to at least consider the possibilities of considering a change.
On my radio show and recent comments on BTB, I have displayed my concerns with the 3-4 defense in Dallas. I think people are starting to get the impression that I don't like the 3-4 defense and I don't want people to get the wrong idea.
I like the 3-4 defense, when it's working. I just prefer the 4-3 defense because I think it is easier to draft for.
- I think the 3-4 is the harder defense to draft for. Most college teams play a 4-3 defense and there are very few schools that run a true 3-4. In my opinion, I think it's more difficult to evaluate college talent that has to change position in order to fit your 3-4 defense.
- Of course you set a profile for the type of player you are looking for, but that doesn't mean it is easy to find them.
- When looking for 3-4 DE's, you are looking for disruptive players who can rush the passer and stop the run.
- The NT position is one of the most important. Usually you are looking for a prospect with size and strength. NT is one of the harder positions to find when evaluating college talent.
- When looking for 3-4 OLB's, usually you are looking for prospects who were 4-3 DE's in college. This is risky because they have to make the position change from a down lineman, to a stand up pass rusher. We had great success with DeMarcus Ware, but we are still looking for his compliment on the other side.
- When looking for 3-4 ILB's, you want to look for prospects who have good range and can play sideline to sideline. These prospects must have the speed to play in pass coverage and also be strong enough to take on blockers and fly into the gaps in the run game.
I think if you find and have the right talent for the 3-4, it then becomes a great defense. When the 3-4 is working correctly, you confuse the opposing offense with your blitzes. I think the 3-4 does a good job against the run and when the pass rush is working, the 3-4 defense can be deadly.
But over the recent years in Dallas, I haven't seen our 3-4 work properly. You can put it on the lack of talent we have for the system and the coaching. Whatever area you want to place blame on is fine with me.
There are reasons why I like the 4-3 defense.
- I think it is easier to find talent for since most college teams run a 4-3 defense. Most of the time, you don't have to worry about a prospect making a positional change.
- The 4-3 defense primarily gets pressure from it's front four. When you have a good front four, you can generate pressure without blitzing and drop into coverage.
- Dropping back into coverage makes it harder for teams to throw the ball.
- Later on in games, you start bringing a fifth or sixth man in blitzes and then you can really get after the quarterback.
- I think the 4-3 is less gadgetry and gimmicks when compared to the 3-4. I believe that sometimes the 3-4 defense is too confusing for players and I believe the 3-4 defense sometimes relies too much on these gadgets and gimmicks.
- The 4-3 is more of a straight up defense.
I don't hate the 3-4 defense, I actually was very fond of it when we changed to it under Bill Parcells. It's just that over the years, I have come to the understanding that the 3-4 is a personnel based defense. You truly need the right personnel and if you don't have the right players for the scheme, the results could be disastrous.
Free Agency And The Draft
I believe that the Cowboys will remain in a 3-4 defense under head coach Jason Garrett. Garrett has always preferred the 3-4 defense and when he was interviewed for head coaching jobs, he had the 3-4 defense in mind.
What the Cowboys do in free agency could then dictate their draft strategy and eventually what defense they run.
If the Cowboys signed a marquee free agent like Mario Williams or Cliff Avril, would they then switch back to the 4-3 defense? I think Mario is a long shot and it is very unlikely that he will be a Cowboy. But the dream is possible I suppose.
Adding Mario Williams would then give you one of the most dominant 4-3 DE's in the league. Obviously, Mario Williams made the transition to a 3-4 OLB last year under Wade Phillips in Houston. But having DeMarcus Ware and Mario Williams as your DE's in a 4-3 could be a really dynamic duo.
A lot of our current personnel could play in the 4-3.
- DeMarcus Ware was a 4-3 DE at Troy and people say he would be too undersized to play the 4-3 DE position. Well then I encourage you to go look at the size of some of the best 4-3 DE's in the NFL. Look up Jared Allen and Dwight Freeney and tell me what they weigh in at.
- Anthony Spencer has always been a 4-3 DE. Spencer has been playing out of position since he left Purdue, where he was dominant as a 4-3 DE. If we resigned Spencer, I would love to see him as a 4-3 DE.
- Marcus Spears is another player playing out of position. For years people have said Spears would benefit as a 4-3 DT.
- Jay Ratliff is one of the most undersized NT's in the league. Imagine him not having to face double and triple teams every series on defense? A move to the 4-3 might lengthen his career and unleash Ratliff.
- Jason Hatcher looks like a great piece for the 4-3 defense at either DT or DE.
- Sean Lissemore is a young, up and coming player who could play in either system. His skill set would translate well to the 4-3.
- Josh Brent would be a very solid DT in the 4-3.
Then you look at our linebackers.
- Sean Lee is the Chuck Norris of linebackers. He can play anywhere and be damn good at it. Lee would make one heck of a MLB (Mike LB) in the 4-3.
- Bruce Carter is a relatively unknown commodity at this point in time. But what we do know is that he was a great player for Butch Davis at UNC in the 4-3. Bruce Carter has the athletic skill set to play almost any LB position in the 4-3.
So this is where the draft comes into play. Moving to a 4-3 would make us play the card some of us fear the most, drafting yet another inside linebacker.
But with arguably the best inside linebacker in the entire draft possibly available when we go on the clock at pick 14, Luke Kuechly from Boston College would be a home run draft pick. Now hear me out before you stop reading this article and Chuck Norris your computer.
Moving to a 4-3 with that grouping of talent at linebacker would be amazing.
- Luke Kuechly
- Sean Lee
- Bruce Carter
That would be one of the most talented linebacker cores in all of football. Not only would you have three athletic linebackers with speed, you would have three intelligent and smart players who have a great grasp of the 4-3 scheme.
Our front seven would be in my opinion, one of the best in the NFL then.
- Luke Kuechly LB
- Sean Lee LB
- Bruce Carter LB
Then our defensive front.
- DeMarcus Ware DE
- Jay Ratliff DT
- Marcus Spears DT
- Anthony Spencer DE or Mario Williams DE
Then your rotational players.
- Jason Hatcher DE/DT
- Sean Lissemore DE/DT
- Josh Brent DE/DT
Then you figure in any players we sign in free agency or any players we draft. Adding another DT/DE in free agency and the draft would be beneficial to the defensive front. There are draft prospects like Whitney Mercilus and Chandler Jones who would be great fits at defensive end. Then at defensive tackle, you have prospects like Marcus Forston, Jerel Worthy, and Kendall Reyes. Adding one or two of those players, paired with the other moves I suggested would make a great front seven.
I just wanted to touch on the 4-3 topic a little more. It gives us something to talk about and the X's and O's get pretty interesting when you start to dig a little deeper here. We will most likely stay in our 3-4 defense under Rob Ryan, but it does give us something to talk about.
The Three Levels, Three Playmakers Theory
Last week on KD's podcast, Krunchtime With KD, I brought up an interesting theory. I said how the Ravens have playmakers at three different levels on defense. Those three players are Haloti Ngata, Ray Lewis, and Ed Reed. They have a playmaker at each level of their defense. ProBowlFactory went on to write a fan post on the same topic, http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/1/14/2707864/watch-and-learn-how-to-improve-the-defense
- Haloti Ngata is a playmaker on the defensive line. He is a tank that plugs the run as a 3-4 NT and also has the versatility to shift out to DE and rush the passer.
- Ray Lewis is the force in the middle and it's amazing to me how he is still running strong after all of these years. Ray Lewis is still a playmaker at 36 years of age.
- Ed Reed is one of my favorite players of all time. The ball hawking FS has 57 career INT's and is one of the best safeties in NFL history. At the ripe age of 33, Reed is still to this day one of the most feared players in the secondary.
When I look at the Cowboys, I break it down like this.
- DeMarcus Ware and Jay Ratliff would be our playmakers on the first level. Ware is still in his prime and is one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, if not the best. Jay Ratliff had a good season in 2011, but he is not the same playmaker he was a few years ago. Whether it's age or the physicality of the position, it's beginning to have an effect on his body.
- Sean Lee would be our Ray Lewis in the middle. Sean Lee is definitely becoming one of the best inside linebackers in football and looks to be one of the epic steals of recent draft history.
- In the secondary, who is our Ed Reed? It's definitely not Gerald Sensabaugh. It's definitely not Abe Elam. The best player in our secondary is Mike Jenkins, but he is far from a ballhawk right? To be frank, we simply do not have a playmaker in our secondary and this has really been a major reason for the lack of success the Cowboys have had over the years.
Will the Cowboys ever land a playmaker in the secondary? Will we ever see a Ed Reed like player back there? It's going to be tough to land a playmaker at safety. Across the league as a whole, safety play is down. In the college ranks, the quality of safety prospects has been real thin.
Part of the problem is the mental aspect of the game. Ed Reed is a devoted film room fanatic and is one of the smartest players in the NFL. He takes a student like approach to the game. He is always watching, he is always learning.
I believe that most of the young safeties that come into the league aren't as hungry as Ed Reed is. If some of these young safeties with the athletic ability would get into that film room and become a student of the game, maybe they would elevate their play.
It won't be easy for the Cowboys to land a ballhawking safety. They know this and this is why they signed Gerald Sensabaugh long term. I believe that they feel somewhat safe knowing what he can bring to the table. I believe the Cowboys are scared of the unknown. They possibly fear going out and playing a young safety in the secondary after the Alan Ball experiment of 2010 and being burned on big contracts like Ken Hamlin.
But at some point, they are going to have to take a stab at the position. I don't know if that is signing a free agent safety like Michael Griffin and his 17 career INT's, or drafting a young free safety prospect like Markelle Martin.
There is some hope that the Cowboys are looking at teams like the Ravens. Listen to the Jerry Jones video above and you will see that he does indeed value what the Ravens do, so that is some comforting news.
A lot of the great defenses in the NFL have playmakers in their secondary. It is an element that we desperately lack and one day, hopefully sooner than later, it is finally addressed.
Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.
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I dont understand
how changing defensive fronts is going to make our Dline better pass rushers.
by cmttx on Jan 24, 2012 3:47 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Because a great 4-3 can create pressure with just the defensive line
ie..New York Giants, it could be said that they have 4 defensive end style players and all they do is rush rush rush…rush outside..rush inside, apply constant pressure with just their front 4.
You can take more chances with the front four pass rushing because there are three Lbs playing the run.
The advantage of the 3-4 is that you can better disguise where your pass rushers are coming from. That’s a simplistic way of explaining it. The DEs in a 3-4 have more run stopping responsibilities.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
And what exactly is supposed to do a 3-4?
Rush the 3 DLineman?
No, every scheme rushes 4 guys as a general idea.
The problem in Dallas is that outside Ware and Ratliff there isn’t anyone that can do it consistently.
Look at San Francisco, that’s a 3-4, and they may not have a DeMarcus Ware, but they can get to the QB with an awful LOT of guys…
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
True but one could say that Aldon Smith is in the making
of an elite pass rusher.
Optimissum Prime sees nothing but the best for America's Team!!!
by Cowboys_Attack on Jan 25, 2012 6:38 AM CST up reply actions
Keep in mind...
The Cowboys had 42 sacks this year and the Giants had just 6 more. I am sure there are plenty of teams that would love to have as much as Dallas had. Also, I am not sure I want DWare leaning on a 300lb tackle on first and second down. I prefer him to come off the edge. Doing that will help him avoid wearing down before the game ends. The problem is not the scheme, but it’s the secondary first and foremost. I really think hiring Henderson is going help the D immensely. Have good technique would have helped Scandrick at the end of the Giants game. They would have still been down 21-14 with the ball…and anything could have happened from that point on.
by TheCowboyFan on Jan 25, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, but almost half of those 42 sacks
came from one player. And if you put DWare at DE in a 4-3, he’ll still be outside the tackle, and either setting the edge or coming off it.
I don't care about being America's Team. I care about being America's BEST team.
by BWareofDWare on Jan 26, 2012 8:12 PM CST up reply actions
Another point...
…is that if you look at the games towards the end of the season, which are by far more important than games in the first half of the season, the ‘Boys just were not getting to the QB. Whereas the G-men’s pass rush steadily improved throughout the season as they became healthier.
Just because Dallas had 6 less sacks than the Giants, doesn’t by any stretch mean our front 7 is comparable. All teams had to double/triple team #94 and game over! No one else in the front 7 was beating their man straight up!
Good Read Chia
There not changing to a 3-4 first of all. They did experiment with 4-3 fronts, but that’s is what Rob Ryan’s defense looks like sometimes. I know people are against this change, but an overhaul needs to happen and that starts at NT. I think they know this the reason why it came out recently they are looking into moving Ratliff to DE. We need a 3-4 DE that can rush the passer which I think Ratliff can do. Now go get another in the dtraft or FA and have him rotate with Hatcher. All you have to do is look at the Giants and Niners to know you still need to have defense to get deep into the playoffs.
I will add this.
Now that Henderson is the DB coach I really can see them signing Elam to another one year deal.
thanks
I dont see us changing either, but we could see a shift towards the 4-3 the next 2 years
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 24, 2012 6:27 PM CST up reply actions
why oh why in tyne world would you ever want DWare dropping back in coverage?
Running a 3-4 with a player like him has been stupid since Parcells was here. Every snap he’s covering a RB or TE is a wasted play for him, and Spencer for that matter.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011
by Realist Larry on Jan 24, 2012 5:03 PM CST up reply actions
btw he wasn't in coverage on that play he was still rushing the passer.
Just happened to make an amazing catch the likes of which we have yet to see again.
Optimissum Prime sees nothing but the best for America's Team!!!
by Cowboys_Attack on Jan 25, 2012 6:42 AM CST up reply actions
Thanksgiving against the Dolphins
There was one play were he recognized that no one was covering the RB. He dropped into coverage and prevented a TD pass because he knew he wasn’t going QB quick enough.
I thought it was because a DE is more effective than an ILB
Who’s a better pass rusher? Osi or Brady James? That was a big difference…
Why doesn't RR join Jenny Craig ? I mean seriously.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 25, 2012 5:41 AM CST up reply actions
LOL
That is one serious belly! Who’s their new spokesman I think Charles Barkley and if he could loose weight so could RR for crying out loud.
Optimissum Prime sees nothing but the best for America's Team!!!
by Cowboys_Attack on Jan 25, 2012 6:43 AM CST up reply actions
We lose allot of cred with him looking like that on the sidelines.
He should be put in a skybox…seated and not allowed to stand up.
by StarloverinWNC on Jan 26, 2012 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
Hard to imagine that the Cowboys had 3 HOF-calibre playmakers on 3 levels for close to a decade
with Bob Lilly, Chuck Howley and Mel Renfro.
Doomsday, indeed…
you can do with less too
SD had some good Ds with Rodney Harrison on one side and Junior Seau on the other
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Jan 25, 2012 6:33 PM CST up reply actions
I'm all in for a switch back to the 4-3
You must have the right personnel for a 3-4 and we don’t have it. 4 different coordinators since we have been running it and the same results.. average to good but ever elite. The only 3-4 teams I like are Baltimore and San Fran. Its no coincidence that Garrett wanted SF DC Vic Fangio before Rob Ryan. He runs a simple attacking defense instead of gimmicks and confusion with little to no adjustments…
by dcsince77 on Jan 24, 2012 4:35 PM CST via mobile reply actions
But I am willing to give Ryan another chance..
Being that he didnt have a full offseason to work with the players. And he didn’t get a chance to bring in his coaches to help him implement his system. But next season, there are no excuses… Because they will provide him with everything he needs
by dcsince77 on Jan 24, 2012 4:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Why waste another year ? Make the switch now.
It’s a copy cat league. Gmen win and I think you will begin to see more teams return to the 4-3 or at least tapping the brakes on making a switch to the 3-4. There really shouldn’t be any debate. Dallas has failed at it for years. Quit wasting the fans time by making us watch that crap.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 25, 2012 5:16 AM CST up reply actions
+1
Optimissum Prime sees nothing but the best for America's Team!!!
by Cowboys_Attack on Jan 25, 2012 6:54 AM CST up reply actions
Just get the right personnel for whatever scheme thy intend to use.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
Me too.
I like what Ryan did in those two games in 2010 against New England and Indy when he first unleashed his “amobea” defense. It was pure Genius….
Lets give him at least one more year so he can have a full offseason to “coach-em-up” and put in his full package.
If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?
Chia,
A few questions.
How do you think RR would respond to running more 4-3 sets?
If we went after Mario do you think that signals JG’s intent on moving to a predominant 4-3 D?
It sure seems that we have better personnel for the 4-3 if we had another 4-3 LB. If we draft Kuechly, do you think the 3-4 fate is sealed and we go to a 4-3?
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
sure
Rob Ryan- People tend to forget Rob Ryan coached under Bell Bellicheck, who mixed in 4-3 sets with the 3-4 defense. Rob Ryan can coach any defense he wants, he knows them all very well, he just prefers the 3-4 method. But to answer your question directly now, I think he would be fine with it because Ryan has done so before and Ryan knows he can run any defense. I wouldn’t expect a problem from Ryan there at all.
Mario Williams- Trick question, yes and no. Because Mario played in the 3-4 last year, so it could be looked at to replace Spencer at that spot and at the same time it could mean a switch to a 4-3 because Mario Williams might have been more effective and comfortable in the 4-3. We could really look at it both ways honestly.
Luke Kuechly- Again a trick question yes and no, but I would really think we would be better of running a 4-3 then because it puts Carter Lee and Kuechly on the field at the same time. I think the fate would be sealed for Kuechly becoming a real good player in Dallas though, he is the Sean Lee starter kit.
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 24, 2012 6:31 PM CST up reply actions
On "The Hoodie"...
I heard Belichick saying the other day the the whole 3-4/4-3 terminology is more for depth charts and the like. He talked about how they(coaches) don’t really use that terminology and it’s more about teaching technique and gap responsibilities. Things like that.
That’s why in a Belichick defense, you see them switching between a 3 and 4 man line with little or no substitutions. It’s just all about what technique the players are playing.
I read that too
"With the 14th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.........The Dallas Cowboys select..............Melvin Ingram DE South Carolina"
My card has been sent in
by Archie Barberio on Jan 27, 2012 6:39 PM CST up reply actions
Yep it is
more about one-gap versus two-gap and over and under than it is about 4-3 versus 3-4.
The key is to confuse the pre-snap reads AND to get pressure on the QB. Most 3-4 sets really turn into a 5-2 anyway.
In my next Football 101 article I will show you what I believe to be the best defense ever. (I saw the Ravens run it once or twice).
If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?
now that sounds good
"With the 14th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.........The Dallas Cowboys select..............Melvin Ingram DE South Carolina"
My card has been sent in
by Archie Barberio on Jan 29, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
Remember this in regards to Mario.....
Mario played w/de. In a 4-3 Ware would be playing the w/de. Mario may not be the guy you want.
Remember Hatcher saying how happy was returning to the w/de position after playing s/de ? There is a difference.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 25, 2012 5:40 AM CST up reply actions
The difference is the TE chips you and you face the ROT
with Ware on the field, I think the TE will line up on the other side, so its ROT alone
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Jan 25, 2012 6:35 PM CST up reply actions
Well if you were Hatcher
Which spot would you rather have?
Between Ware and Ratliff = one on one w/LG
Between Ratliff and Spencer= Doubled RT/TE
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 25, 2012 8:50 PM CST up reply actions
anywhere away from #93
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 25, 2012 8:53 PM CST up reply actions
My my how times change. When I wrote all this in '07/-08 it was blasphemy
THe 3-4 was going to rock our worlds and wreak havoc with its confusing and mighty array of disguised blitzes.
First Parcells, then Wade, now Ryan.
Glad to se everyone coming around.
Ware should have been a Harvey Martin DE his whole career.
Jerry wanted a 3-4 toy, then never once drafted the right players for it.
they’re just D Lucky a 7th round pick has been able to fill in at NT for years since olde Jason Ferguson got hurt and went down.
Let’s all hope these rumors are true and the experiment is over. It’s been almost 10 years!!
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011
I don't give a damn what they do? The mark of a great organization is to get players who will fit their system. The mark of a great coach is to adjust his system to the talent level at hand. AKA Bill Belichick.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
+1 kagillion
"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!
by mho on Jan 24, 2012 5:26 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I agree 100%
They switched systems, then never drafted players to fit it.
Whuh??
And, I’ve pointed out many times how RRyan especially did not adjust his coaching to the talent this year.
My main fear for the future is that Garrett and Ryan are married to certain schemes/philosophies regardless of personnell and how they are working. No ability to adjust to other teams.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011
by Realist Larry on Jan 24, 2012 7:13 PM CST up reply actions
great article Chia
As I sit and think about what this team has defensively I get excited for a move back to the 4-3. All of our talent fits a 4-3 far better than a 3-4. iPhone Rec. I’ll Rec it on my computer at home.
"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!
by mho on Jan 24, 2012 5:21 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
thanks, glad you liked it
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 24, 2012 6:32 PM CST up reply actions
I dont think a switch to a 4-3 is going to help the pass rush one bit.
Ware would get chipped by a TE or RB every play and Ratliff will still get doubled teamed every play. This will leave the rest of the players in the same one on one situations they have been in all year, and done verry little with. I think it doesn’t matter what defense you run if you don’t have playmakers! We need some new faces. If we run out there with the same personal but in a base 4-3 I think the results will be similar.
by Coakey on Jan 24, 2012 6:07 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
not so fast
if ratliff is dt on same side as ware….you have 2 and 1/2 ol blocking rat and #94….even if the center te and rb all bite on that side….that leaves one on one for spears and spencer..every play….and thats against a max protect…..i like those numbers
So just by switching from 43 to 34 Dallas pass rush’ goes from being a big problem to being one of the dominant front sevens in the league? Hinky. I don’t know that I agree that one is easier to draft for than the other. And really your argument is the same as the one that says leave things alone but, please, replace Brooking, Newman, etc. already. Why would Spears get the nod over LIssemore or Hatcher in the 43 anyways?
Spears has always been mentioned when moving to a 4-3
because a lot of people around the NFL see him as a 4-3 DT, in college Spears was great at that
Spears would be a real good 4-3 DT
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 24, 2012 6:33 PM CST up reply actions
If Lissemore is better than Spears then why isn't he starting?
Hey Washington... D.C. stands for Dallas Cowboys
Jerry the GM…if we could only find a way to get rid of that guy…
Twitter: @silva918
I dunno. If Spears is starting (and playing more?) why are his stats lower than Lissemore’s and Hatcher’s? Hatcher missed time due to injury, and Lissemore didn’t get as much playing time earlier in the season. Both had more tackles and sacks than Spears. Obviously anybody who plays next to Rat (and Ware) is going to benefit, but if the idea is to put Ware at one end, Spencer (or a free agent DE) at the other end, and Rat in the middle, you only have one spot left. Why would you sit Lissemore and Hatcher (and to a lesser extent Brent) in favor of Spears? I’d rather get more of these guys on the field than have them sitting because the scheme calls for a different position. And not to pick apart what may be just a random exercise of a lineup, but you’re going to have to play nickel some. Do you really want to spend another high pick on a linebacker when you know you can only play two at a time in those sets?
start spears at the other DT
use the giants meathod of rotating rushers….rat and spears in the middle is nice, i just think it would work well…i dunno
and I dont have an argument here
I am just talking logistics
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 24, 2012 6:35 PM CST up reply actions
Shoulda signed Goldson. Period. We signed Elam.
We have more 4-3 talent than 3-4 talent. Pretty simple imo.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
mensa
we have been talking about this for months, so I think we already are on the same page as far as some of the 3-4 4-3 stuff goes
but people think I hate the 3-4 and that is not the case at all, I just wanted to point out that its a personnel problem
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 24, 2012 6:36 PM CST up reply actions
I don't hate the 3-4. Dallas however can't draft for it. Never have been able too.
So why beat your head against a wall ?
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 25, 2012 5:20 AM CST up reply actions
it's a brains problem...
if Dallas had a secondary that could actually make plays on the ball instead of watching the receiver and hoping for the best, this defense would be a lot more stout…and who knows, might still be playing two Sunday’s from now.
by TheCowboyFan on Jan 25, 2012 9:21 AM CST up reply actions
I think spears would have
a pretty good year as the noseguard letting rat take the guard 1-1.
having DW and spencer at DE still lets rob ryan do some tricky Sh@t with swap blitzes and such.
Lee and Carter would be a dynamic duo in either scheme.
I would rather we run a hybrid scheme ala baltimore or arizona – I think it would add flexibility without necessarily confusing our own players.
Each week, play whoever is standing across the field from you, whenever and wherever. If you match up well, exploit it and win. If you don’t, then get very crafty in your game play and try to "steal" a win anyway. Repeat process until no more games remain, and confetti rains down from a retractable roof and Roger Goodell is handing out hardware. - hookerhome
in aeternum amicus meus vivit sua musica non morietur
A Friend of mine lives forever, his music will never die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J1FHzJruAg
RIP Chuck Shuldiner - Father of Death Metal
we already kinda run a hybrid scheme considering Ryan gets funky with switching people around and using different fronts
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 24, 2012 6:34 PM CST up reply actions
I've seen Spears get pushed around by TE's as a 3-4 DE...
don’t see how moving him inside in a 4-3 will make him stronger.
And our team is to dumb for a hybrid scheme. See the last 5 years of Defensive Coaches dumbing their schemes down for proof. I’d be ecstatic if this group manages to just thoroughly comprehend one scheme.
I didn't say he would become stronger
just that lining up over center in a 4-3 would allow ratliff to take a guard 1v1 – and that he might have a good year, at least by his standards.
As for hybrid scheming being too confusing, most of the confusion our front seven players seem to have is with all the pre snap movement and irregular alignments rob ryan likes to throw around out there.
Each week, play whoever is standing across the field from you, whenever and wherever. If you match up well, exploit it and win. If you don’t, then get very crafty in your game play and try to "steal" a win anyway. Repeat process until no more games remain, and confetti rains down from a retractable roof and Roger Goodell is handing out hardware. - hookerhome
in aeternum amicus meus vivit sua musica non morietur
A Friend of mine lives forever, his music will never die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J1FHzJruAg
RIP Chuck Shuldiner - Father of Death Metal
by Nick Castillo on Jan 24, 2012 9:50 PM CST up reply actions
If he doesn't become stronger then I see him getting pushed around at noseguard.
Spears isn’t a tough or overly physical player I don’t see how moving him inside will help him much.
I think Ratliff would be very good inside in a 4-3. He’s good at 3-4 NT, he’d be good at 3-4 DE, he’d be good at 4-3 DT and I think he could even be good at 4-3 DE and it’s all simply because he’s a good player. No matter what the scheme Ratliff will succeed. After 7 years of watching Spears play I think we’re pretty safe in assuming that, no matter what the scheme, he will continue to be average.
This group was confused under Philips too can’t put it all on Rob. And our secondary, especially the Safety spot, has been blowing assignments regularly ever since Woodson retired.
Whether we run a 3-4 or a 4-3 we need a large influx of talent on the Dline, at LB’er and in the Secondary.
A bigger issue is that our DE's are not getting to the QB... again
There’s more double-teaming taking place and if you don’t blitz well at LB, then you can’t take advantage of the scheme… I just wonder what it would look like if we used Carter and Ware on the edge and Lee in the middle. We could do OK if we drafted or used a solid UFA for a pass rusher, if we don’t keep Spencer.
I think Carter would be better blitzing off the edge.
Carter would only be a real good blitzer as a 4-3 LB
his thing in the 3-4 is what his skill set translates well to and that is coverage and sideline to sideline ability
I dont see Bruce Carter as Von Miller, as some have suggested on here
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 24, 2012 6:37 PM CST up reply actions
Thats what we have victor butler for.
I think he could play that same strongside rusher role. Carter could play on the weakside matching up over te’s like he was drafted for. Honestly if we look at the best players on the d, for our front 7 the 4-3 makes the most sence for our pesonel.
Ware to hatcher to spear/brent to lissimore.
With carter and butler and lee. You could bring bradie james back as a good fit/back up in the 4-3 as well. It also gives us the ability to really go acter a melvin ingram or whiteny mercelius. And give us some flex 3-4 4-3 interchange ability. The more i think about it the more on board i get.
by Proxy406 on Jan 24, 2012 7:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
What's scary is the Giants have Marvin Austin to add to the mix next year.
Damn I hate the Giants for being smart and Dallas is dumb regarding defense.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 25, 2012 5:24 AM CST up reply actions
Again, that's because your a Giants fan. Why don't you go and talk the 4-3 up over on their board?
by TheCowboyFan on Jan 25, 2012 8:26 AM CST up reply actions
You know
Comparing this team to other teams is a good way to see what is working and what isn’t. I don’t agree with Mensa all the time but theres no reason for this. Everyone should be welcomed here unless they are true trolls.
The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT
If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.
LOL @ TheCowboyFan
If the Pats win I am gonna be a Pats fan. Ok ? ; )
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 25, 2012 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
Marvin Austin is one of the most athletic D-linemen to come out recently
A bonehead, but not looking forward to playing against him.
by TheCowboyWay on Jan 26, 2012 12:58 AM CST up reply actions
Getting caught up in the scheme is way overrated.
The problem is and continues to be our talent. The unit we are probably most talent deficient at (the secondary) is the same regardless of what the front seven looks like.
I also don’t really buy the idea that the 4-3 is easier to draft for than the 3-4. I don’t think there are numbers that actually support that whatsoever.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Jan 24, 2012 7:14 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
But if we take the 3-4 sticker off Marcus Spears...
and then apply this shiny new 4-3 sticker to him…KAPOW! Did you see that? Spears is a really good player now!!
Good opinionated article chia
I’m a huge 3-4 guy I believe you have way more options with personal usage and talent ranges in the 3-4. Than the 4-3. Dallas likes being able to stop the run they have since the switch. Everyone compares to the giants front 4 rushers who get to the qb but when they don’t what happens you can’t so shit bit sit back and watch just like the giants watched there season go down the drain. It wasn’t until they started to get the rush back that they had there success. With the 3-4 if your 4 don’t get home then you can move guys and plug and play kinda thing rush on the weakest side bring heat from the places that best fit your talent. Our down linemen are not getting the push to.collapse the pocket even in the 4-3 set we got no push. Your all foolish to.think the switch to 4-3 will make a difference.
by Sado44 on Jan 24, 2012 7:38 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Frankly, with as fluid as Rob's scheme I think whatever label you attach to it is pretty irrelevant.
Take Belichick, for example. Much was made of the Patriots running more 4-3 fronts after the Fat Albert signing, but ultimately it was just the Hooded One running whatever got him the best results. We just need better players, period, across all three levels of the defense (although if Bruce Carter pans out we’re in damned good shape with the LB corps).
I wouldn’t be surprised to see us running some four-down fronts this season. But this meme that “switching to the 4-3” as proposed by armchair GMs and stubborn old timers will magically transform the defense into a dominant unit needs to stop (not that I’m accusing you of saying or being any of that, Chia – your stuff is always well done).
by TheBlueBaron on Jan 24, 2012 8:28 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I'm glad you brought up Kuechly
On another thread, I asked if the 14th pick rolled around and the Cowboys had Kuechly as the best rated player left on their board, by far, would they take him?
I’m thinking that the Cowboys newfound flirtation with the 4-3 means that they may already be considering Kuechly on the shortlist for 14.
#demarcusvstheworld
Cowboys wishlist: RG3
by accidental innuendo on Jan 24, 2012 8:36 PM CST reply actions
I think Kuechly will be drafted later than most think.
I hope we don’t draft him at #14.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
I would bring up the case of Jerod Mayo
Who, by all accounts, was a late first-rounder. Only Belichek saw his worth, and deservedly so, as a top-10 pick. If not the Cowboys, and I agree it is unlikely, it seems the Iggles will snap him up right after.
#demarcusvstheworld
Cowboys wishlist: RG3
by accidental innuendo on Jan 25, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
Mayo was a much better athlete coming out than Kuechly is.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
I don't know bout that
I have watched some scouting stuff On Kuchley….Kid Looks to as athletic as Lee is…
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 26, 2012 5:05 AM CST up reply actions
yeah I think Kuechly is pretty athletic
but idk if he is athletic as Mayo, Mayo ran a 4.54 40 at the combine and had a 40 1/2 inch vertical on his pro day
I would be shocked if Kuechly ran a 4.5 40, but he is still a really good athlete
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 26, 2012 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
if he has anything resembling this:
40 Yrd Dash: 4.60
20 Yrd Dash: 2.63
10 Yrd Dash: 1.54
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 24
Vertical Jump: 37 1/2
Broad Jump: 10’00"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.16
3-Cone Drill: 6.89
I bet he doesn’t even make it to 14
BTW that was Sean Lee’s Combine/Proday workout
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 26, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
yeah thats a pretty solid workout
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 26, 2012 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
I doubt he tests as well as Sean Lee did.
And, with that being said, Mayo still posted better numbers than Lee (which shows just how much of a freak he was).
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
yeah Mayo was a big underwear Olympics star that year
you could just tell he was something special
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 26, 2012 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
you sure creasy?
Height: 6-1
Weight: 242
40 Yrd Dash: 4.54
20 Yrd Dash: 2.58
10 Yrd Dash: 1.50
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 22
Vertical Jump: 401/2
Broad Jump: 09’06"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.29
3-Cone Drill: 7.31
other than Vertical (3 inches) and the 40(where Lee was .4 secs slower from start to finish) Lee outperformed Mayo….
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 26, 2012 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
Until the combine, I think that is still subjective
Quite a few teams will covet a player like him, and good ILBs are starting to get a better rep. My overall point: He will get drafted much earlier than you think.
#demarcusvstheworld
Cowboys wishlist: RG3
by accidental innuendo on Jan 26, 2012 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
I doubt he is picked before #20. But we'll see.
Last year no one could conceive of Prince dropping either.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
The Chargers will take Kuechly
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 25, 2012 6:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Also, which is the better double-dip?
Nicks/Decastro
or
Avril/Perry
#demarcusvstheworld
Cowboys wishlist: RG3
by accidental innuendo on Jan 24, 2012 8:39 PM CST reply actions
Nicks/Decastro
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
Mario/Still
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 24, 2012 9:44 PM CST up reply actions
I liked Still a lot when I thought we'd be drafting in the 20's but at #14 there will be others I prefer.
Mario on the other hand, well, who wouldn’t be happy!
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
i still say they could benefit from using both
if like many say the personnel is already here, they can use both looks depending on the situation
Even though their Defense has struggled the past few seasons
The Patriots Defense is getting ahead of the curve:
Your base defense changes from week to week based on what offense your playing, and situation to situtation based on the personell the offense is running.
When a reporter asked Belichek if he’s switching his defense to 4-3 he responded by saying the distinction is media driven, because there are 3-4 teams who use an even alignment on the DL and 4-3 teams using odd alignments on the DL.
The other thing the Patriots are doing is finding DBs who can play more man coverage instead of zone coverage, since the new rules changes are making it friendly for offenses to excute passes over the middle of the field since flags will be thrown and 15 yrd penalties will be awarded for anything bordering a blow on a defensless receiver.
That being said, whether we run the 3-4 or 4-3 as our base defense, or we use the best of both defenses, the point still remains:
1) Spears is nothing more than a run stuffer, and as a 4-3 tackle he won’t start getting sacks. He’d still be the same the player he is now.
2) Spencer will not become a better pass rusher as a 4-3 end; in nickle situations we line him and Ware as 4-3 ends essentially, and Spencer still struggles to sack the QB.
3) Whether it’s 3-4/4-3 we still need a legitimate DT who can collapse the pocket up the middle.
4) The fact still remains our DBs need to get better at both Safety and Corner. You need a ball hawk at both positions.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 24, 2012 10:40 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I think Spencer would be a good SOLB in the 4-3
he can cover and play the run well along with occasional blitzes. You would have to draft or sign a DE to man the spot opposite of Ware
by somebodyquiet on Jan 24, 2012 11:09 PM CST up reply actions
spencer gets dusted in coverage
see Brandon Jacobs in 2009 at Giants Stadium; and see Delanie Walker this past yr at Candlestick.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 24, 2012 11:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
also see the Knowshon Moreno td against Dallas in 2009
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 24, 2012 11:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Another reason to switch to the 4-3
spencer gets dusted in coverage
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 25, 2012 5:25 AM CST up reply actions
Spencer would still be a mediocre pass rusher in the 4-3
And the team should not change the defense just for him, he’s not worth a scheme change.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
Spencer isn't a good player. (projected college de to olb)
He isn’t the reason I want to switch to a 4-3. We don’t have 3-4 personnel. That is why I want to switch. That and the 4-3 is easier to draft for. Less projection of college de’s to olb’s.
Less confusing for the players also.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 25, 2012 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
what they need to do is hire scouts who
are trained in looking for 3-4 personnel.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 25, 2012 6:45 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Jerry has deep pockets
He should open the book for a few of Pittsburgh’s scouts.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 25, 2012 6:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
If by an act of God Belichick became our DC, do you think he could get more production out of our personnel than
RR?
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
Rob Ryan isn't the problem
Our problem(s)
1) Horrible secondary personell outside of Jenkins and Scandrick
2) We only have 1 pass rusher
3) We had aging James and Brooking rotating at ILB in 2011 opposite Lee, teams exploited those old guys with passes to TEs and RBs.
4) Ratliff needs to be a DE not a NT.
Listening to Jerry’s commets, they want to model the defense after Baltimore. That means we need a NT, improve the ends (accomplished by moving Rat to DE), we need a younger faster more athletic ILB#2, whether its Carter or someone else, and we need to get better safety play, and 2 more corners.
Improved OL play will allow our offense to keep the D off the field for longer periods as well. I expect the OL and the talent deficiencies on Defense to be extensively upgraded through draft and FA.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 24, 2012 11:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I see us playing more of both
We will have a true off season this year, and it will allow Rob more time to spend on the defence with players. We have also brought in a new Secondary coach, who has coached under Rob before, so knows how to implement his scheme. I also us playing both types of alignments going forward, where the defence is matched up on a week to week basis rather than in the standard 3-4 or 4-3 sets.
Cowboys problem with the 3-4 is lack of
Value they place on the d-line, especially DE. When was the last time we drafted a d-lineman high, was that Spears 7 yrs ago. At defensive end we have become a farm system of sorts, when we do find a diamond in the rough they leave for a big contract elsewhere. We lack a 3-4 nose tackle and due to that they transformed possibly one of our best pass rushing DE into an overworked NT doing a job (commendably for 290 lbs) he is not truly fit for. IMO we need a NT bad! Further more others teams have changed to the 3-4 after our shift and have been able to get the players that fit it, which means these players are out there. Basically what I’m saying is that imo all battles/games are won and lost in the trenches wether 3-4 or 4-3 and you can’t go cheap there forever and expect to be competative, pass rushing olb are integral and are great to have (especially one like Ware), but we need good d-lineman to allow them to do their job effectively. A good d-line can make average lb’s and db’s look good same as the o-lineman make average rb’s and qb’s look adequate. I think the main problem (which seems to be in the process of being fixed) is personnel management. What I’m getiing at is if we had managed players contracts correctly, moved players while they still had value to other teams, and had not made some questionable aquisitions we might have been able to keep a Canty or a Bowen and possibly attained a true NT. What I’m saying is even if we go to a 4-3 which like you said and I agree, the players we have on the line will do well in a 4-3 and then be signed by another team when they run their contract with us. Our problem IMO has been personnel management which has limited our ability to retain and develop the talent we do aquire in the not so flashy positions and prohibits our success in any defensive front. Sorry for the excessively long comment guys and grea write up Chia.
by DCB* on Jan 25, 2012 2:38 AM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
+ A BILLION....
I think people are considering the 4-3 because our lack of production on the Defensive line but they aren’t considering why. I have been harping on getting a true NT since the beginning of the 3-4 alignment and I seem to fall on deaf ears.
all battles/games are won and lost in the trenches
You are not alone in believing that man. I’m just wondering when this team and most our fellow fans will start to understand. Cornerback and such are the end of the chain… we’ve gotta sure up the foundation first!!!
God 1st, Family Always & Dallas Cowboys 4 Life!!!!!
They've figured it out on DallasCowboys.com... there's a start!
Article about a true NT being a need and more!
God 1st, Family Always & Dallas Cowboys 4 Life!!!!!
What a relief, I thought I was the only one (I know I'm not but it seems that way sometimes)
above average o-line and d-line can make a lot of average players look pretty damn good and allows for a more plug and play friendly team. Remember Shannahan’s Broncos back in the day, it didn’t matter who carried the ball for them they would still be rushing for 1,000+ yards.
by DCB* on Jan 26, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Just read that article you linked, and have been saying that for some time now.
I just do not understand why some do not get it, it’s not physics!
the 3 - 4 disadantage
If you have a hall of famer on one side, it kind of takes away the mystery as to who is going to rush. Unless you are going to blitz both OLBs.
Galveston Dave
I wish we had a DE like JJ Watt or Justin Smith
That would be a tremendous help on this defense… Those guys are beasts!
by dcsince77 on Jan 25, 2012 7:50 AM CST via mobile reply actions
The do. However ,Dallas can't find those guys.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 25, 2012 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
They (edit)
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 25, 2012 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
thanks for the call mensa
awesome that you called in thanks, call in more because your a great guest
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 25, 2012 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
Great talking football with you Chia. Maybe we can get you on a regular schedule.
I live in cst and 2 pm shows would be hard for me to listen to on a regular basis. We had bad weather today so I was bale to take a break.
People don’t realize how hard it is to talk for that amount of time with no callers. Maybe one day we could tag team on a show. I’ll be Robin to your Batman. If nothing else people could call in and tell us how smart you are and how dumb I am. LOL
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 25, 2012 5:15 PM CST up reply actions
LOL
dude, I was real happy when I found it you called in, you are pretty knowledgeable and that was a great spot you had
yeah you can come on and co host one day, we will do a special show for that
I got a big time guest coming on next week, but I am waiting to surprise you guys with him
yeah, its hard to talk for a long time man, thats why i at least have notes and a show itinerary in front of me so I dont sound like an idiot
I had a friend call in at the end and he had NOTHING to say, he just wanted to say whats up, im like dude call me at my house later or somerthing wtf
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 25, 2012 8:52 PM CST up reply actions
Chia, are you doing the show tomorrow?
I may call in
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 25, 2012 6:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
dont have one planned for tomorrow
but next time please do
like Mensa just said, people don’t realize how hard it is to talk for that long with no callers
If I get callers, the show just runs smoother
what I do is I write out a show itinerary with topics, that way it is formatted better and in between I try to take calls
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 25, 2012 8:49 PM CST up reply actions
For your next show
Is there any topic you’d like me to call in and discuss?
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 25, 2012 9:51 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
whatever man
anything you want honestly
I just think it makes for a better show when someone calls in
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 26, 2012 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
if I get the chance I might Call in
I can’t Guarentee anything cause of the fact I have the two munchkins, and a wife…but I will try….
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 26, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
we can talk about Costa....
hahaha
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 26, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
lol hahahaha
now that would make for a good conversation
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 26, 2012 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
cool looking forward to it
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 26, 2012 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
We can and have found them, but FO doesn't like investing on the D-line, it has been neglected for years.
When we do find the diamonds in the rough (I believe we haven’t drafted one before the 3rd/4th round and most being 6th,7th, or UDFA) we do not retain them because the FO doesn’t value them or do not want to allocate funds there.
true
the only DT’s drafted recently
Jason Hatcher, Montavious Stanley, Sean Lissemore
thats sad
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 26, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't I know it, but it proves we can find them
2005 – Seems Parcell believed that in order for the team to be successful they needed D-lineman
Spears – DE 1st round, 20th overall (avg)
Canty – DE 4th round, 132 overall (good)
Ratliff – DE 7th round , 224 overall (good)
2006
Hatcher – DE 3rd round, 92 overall (good)
Montavious Stanley – DT 6th round, 182 overall (NC)
Bowen – DE UDFA (good)
2007-2009 – 3 yrs not one D-line player drafted nor UDFA
2010
Lissemore – DE 7th round, 234 overall (seems to be pretty good)
Josh Brent – DT UDFA (need to see more, but ok)
Recap
- Only 1 D-lineman taken in the first
- 2 in the 3rd round
- 1 in the 4th round
- 1 in the 6th round, and the only NT/DT drafted since like 2003
- 2 in the 7th round
- 2 UDFA
9 total (7drafted + 2UDFA) and we have hit on at least 4 and maybe 5 players and when you are taking them that late I’d say that is pretty good. The problem is we do not value them and therefore do not retain them. What if we had kept Canty and Bowen let go Spears. We would have IMHO a pretty good start : Hatcher, Canty, Ratliff, Brent, Lissemore & Bowen.
Still would like to see a big 3-4 NT, therefore I do not have a problem trading down for Poe
if he is worth it, but if not better get Ta’amu.
by DCB* on Jan 26, 2012 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
sucks that we finally developed Bowen and his contract was up and he left
he did a great job for the skins, struggled at first but got better as the season went along
by somebodyquiet on Jan 26, 2012 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
go figure right
instead we signed Spears and Coleman
that blows
"With the 14th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.........The Dallas Cowboys select..............Melvin Ingram DE South Carolina"
My card has been sent in
by Archie Barberio on Jan 26, 2012 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
I miss Canty
"With the 14th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.........The Dallas Cowboys select..............Melvin Ingram DE South Carolina"
My card has been sent in
by Archie Barberio on Jan 26, 2012 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
Would You Send Your Resume to the Cowboys, Chia?
You should be their GM.
I will awaken my expectations for the Cowboys when Jerry Jones is in the ground.
LOL
i would love to work for the Cowboys
50 G’s a year I am down Jerry, hit me up!
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 25, 2012 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
Chia's last name isn't Jones. Jerry wouldn't listen.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 28, 2012 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
lol
"With the 14th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.........The Dallas Cowboys select..............Melvin Ingram DE South Carolina"
My card has been sent in
by Archie Barberio on Jan 29, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
i dont believe that move to 43 would make Spencer better pass rusher
its not about point stance, Ware, Spencer, Ratliff and Hatcher/Lissemore are playing in nickel together and they cant generate enough pressure…
honestly, we have depth for 43, but switch to 43 wont solve our pass rush problems, we will still suck because Ware with Ratliff is still not enough….
before there was law, there were the Cowboys!!!
Switching to the 4-3 means getting rid of Spencer too.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 25, 2012 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
He can played 43 DE, and I think he could be good in a rotation
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Jan 25, 2012 6:09 PM CST up reply actions
he'd be a great 3rd DE
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Jan 25, 2012 6:10 PM CST up reply actions
I know what I like about the 4-3
my nostalgia….
The players do have more specific, defined roles. The need for multifaceted players decreases. Also Ware would be rushing 24/7. Players can also rotate more on Dline with out tipping their hand as to their play call
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
Jay Ratliff could play Warren Sapp's 3-tech role
that forced Warren in to single team match ups. That’s a serious improvement in Ratlif’s prospects of getting sacks.
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
that would be interesting
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 25, 2012 8:52 PM CST up reply actions
Brent, Lissemore, Ratliff, Hatcher
All of them look like DT’s in a standard 4-3.
the unfortunate truth is that if they can’t land a disruptive big body in the draft or FA, then a move to a base 4-3 (a la New England) might make more sense.
The problem is that Dallas still lacks a second DE to play opposite Ware. In that case, maybe you DO take a look at Robert Mathis.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
How expensive does Mathis look?
30, 9.5 sacks last year, lots of 10 sack type seasons… if we could pair him with Spencer, in a rotation, and draft that MLB Chia says, that would be a huge transformation. Still, we lack secondary, OL
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Jan 25, 2012 6:18 PM CST up reply actions
I agree Blings
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 25, 2012 8:52 PM CST up reply actions
you should combine your theory of levels with o-ring theory of sufficency
the combined O-Ring-Three-Level Theory
A great defense requires 8 sufficient players on the field combined with 3 great players, one at each level of defense.
Still, Terrell Suggs exploded with 14.5 sacks this year, diminishing the 3 stars for Baltimore you mentioned.
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
couple of prospect Boys talking to at Senior Bowl
Cam Johnson DE Virginia and
Jake Bequette DE Arkansas
both seem like odd fits in the 3-4 unless they convert to OLB but I have read some opinions that some seem to feel they are 4-3 DE`s only.
I don't think it is that odd.
Cam Johnson has 3-4 SOLB written all over him based on his size (although I have no idea what his potential really is until I see his combine). And Bequette is an interesting guy but if he puts on 10-15 pounds you are looking at a disruptive 5-technique.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
More like 15-20 now that I actually see he is listed around 265 lbs.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Bequette, although a little tall, could also be a SOLB candidate.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
I think both are five techs
idk if Bequette is athletic enough to be a 34 OLB, Johnson maybe
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 26, 2012 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
Come on just cause the guy's white? lol jk
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
lol nooooo
I am not like that
I stuck up for Sean Lee when we drafted him because people said he would be the next Barbie because he was white!
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 26, 2012 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
Cam Johnson is the same weight as Ingram and three inches taller.
I have little doubt he is a SOLB candidate.
Bequette is even a little taller which is why I think he is more likely a five-technique candidate. Then again, if he really is only around 265 lbs, than that sounds like a tall SOLB as well.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
if he added 15 pounds, perfect five tech
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 26, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
hmmm...
You make allot of sense there with the scheme change benefitting the entire front 7 skill set. It looks like a totally different front 7 if you just draft Kuechly and a depth player or two along with the switch to a 4-3.
Things that make you go hmmm???
by StarloverinWNC on Jan 26, 2012 10:32 PM CST reply actions
it does make you go hmmmmmm right? lol
"With the 14th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.........The Dallas Cowboys select..............Melvin Ingram DE South Carolina"
My card has been sent in
by Archie Barberio on Jan 27, 2012 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
Spencer and Mario????
Not sure if anyone’s touched on this yet, but if Jerrah opens up his check book for Super Mario, there’s no way Spencer gets resigned too!
BTW, based on his constantly being injured, I’m going on record as not a fan of signing Mario.
So....this might sound pretty good on paper...
Really interesting ideas here….which prolly means jerruh is going to switch to the 3-3-5 and trade ware for a 7th rd pick…just sayin lol
lol
"With the 14th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.........The Dallas Cowboys select..............Melvin Ingram DE South Carolina"
My card has been sent in
by Archie Barberio on Jan 29, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
makes sense
i like your take on the 4-3, makes sense. and picking pickng up michael griffin would be an upgrade to our safety’s. i think inthe 4-3 without drafting someone, the slb could be lemon or butler. i always liked how the 4-3 kept guards and centers off your line backers so they could make plays. was it just me or did it seem like they played alot of nickle and dime packages. if they did, we dont have the secondary depth for that. i hated how offenses dictated what we did, i wish it were the opposite.
I forgot to include Butler here
I would use him as a pass rusher DE
"With the 14th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.........The Dallas Cowboys select..............Melvin Ingram DE South Carolina"
My card has been sent in
by Archie Barberio on Jan 29, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions

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