Why can't ends rush the passer in the 3-4?

Dallas can’t draft 3-4 de’s. Dallas won’t draft a nt. Jerry is stubborn this way. The 3-4 has been a fail because Jerry won’t draft the talent it requires. When Jerry falls in love (Rat) with a player he gets too comfortable. Frustrating.

Sign Nicks and Osi in free agency. That would be signifigant upgrades to both lines. Then return to the 4-3 and I think the Dallas d would once again become a force. As everyone on this blog like to say , it’s a passing league. Well then add a pass rusher on the d line. It ain’t hard.

Right now we are looking at college de’s projecting them to olb’s. Only Upshaw actually played in a 3-4. Btw even if we did switch to a 4-3 I still would be for drafting someone like Poe..

“We can and have found them, but FO doesn’t like investing on the D-line, it has been neglected for years.

When we do find the diamonds in the rough (I believe we haven’t drafted one before the 3rd/4th round and most being 6th,7th, or UDFA) we do not retain them because the FO doesn’t value them or do not want to allocate funds there."

“Don’t I know it, but it proves we can find them

2005 – Seems Parcell believed that in order for the team to be successful they needed D-lineman
Spears – DE 1st round, 20th overall (avg)
Canty – DE 4th round, 132 overall (good)
Ratliff – DE 7th round , 224 overall (good)

2006
Hatcher – DE 3rd round, 92 overall (good)
Montavious Stanley – DT 6th round, 182 overall (NC)
Bowen – DE UDFA (good)

2007-2009 – 3 yrs not one D-line player drafted nor UDFA

2010
Lissemore – DE 7th round, 234 overall (seems to be pretty good)
Josh Brent – DT UDFA (need to see more, but ok)

Recap
- Only 1 D-lineman taken in the first
- 2 in the 3rd round
- 1 in the 4th round
- 1 in the 6th round, and the only NT/DT drafted since like 2003
- 2 in the 7th round
- 2 UDFA

9 total (7drafted + 2UDFA) and we have hit on at least 4 and maybe 5 players and when you are taking them that late I’d say that is pretty good. The problem is we do not value them and therefore do not retain them. What if we had kept Canty and Bowen let go Spears. We would have IMHO a pretty good start : Hatcher, Canty, Ratliff, Brent, Lissemore & Bowen."

“Still would like to see a big 3-4 NT, therefore I do not have a problem trading down for Poe

if he is worth it, but if not better get Ta’amu."

“Control the line of scrimmage and you control the game”
“Starts with the big guys up front”
“Games are won and lost in the trenches”

I hear these things all the time (I echo them myself) from coaches, media, etc., so this is no secret, but why does it get neglected so often. sigh!

Bruce Smith
Leonard Marshall

The Cowboys DEs aren’t special so there isn’t any pass rush.

Where you are anticipating both of you OLBs to rush the passer in the 3-4, the DE’s in a 3-4 are more defensive tackles than ends.

The difference is between an outside pass rusher and an inside pass rusher. Ideally, you want your outside pass rusher to have enough speed to turn the corner on the OT. If he is chipped (e.g., with a RB or TE), they’ve got to have other moves (e.g., a spin or swim) or hope the QB holds it for a longer time than normal. Anyway, a good outside rusher needs to have some speed.

Inside rushers work always work in traffic and if they are any good, they’ll be doubled by the center. You either have to be mega-quick (like Ratliff — and there are few players like Ratliff) or you need to be powerful in order to collapse the guard/center back into the QB.

The goal of your inside rushers is less to sack the QB than to push the center/guard back into the QB and prevent him from stepping into a throw. If you get a sack, it’ll either be on a busted play, a scramble, a stunt, or something other than a situation in which you beat your man, one-on-one, and then take down the QB.

The problem with putting a “light” guy at DE in a 3-4 is that he’ll be man-handled during the run and the DEs in a 3-4 are primarily run-stoppers. Also, light guys don’t do well in traffic. As such, unless he is rushing the edge, he’s not going to be very effective.

You also have to remember that the 3-4 is just the base defense. When it comes to passing downs, the Cowboys are more likely to employ a traditional 4 down lineman look with Ware and Spencer (or Spencer’s replacement) playing the defensive ends. I assume that once Rex is able to get deeper into his scheme, on passing downs, you see more exotic looks. For example, instead of having 4 defensive lineman (counting Ware as a defensive lineman) you’ll have Ware and 3 quick linebacker types rush the passer and confuse the defense as to who is going to be coming from where. You cannot do that on 1st down because of the threat of the run, but when the down and distance is favorable, you can get more exotic.

What is the best way for the Cowboys to get consistent pressure on the QB?

Two ways: players and scheme. When you have Ware, you’ve got the player, and Ware takes the pressure of anybody else.

The scheme is what takes average players and puts them into positions that get above-average results. I cannot pass judgment on Ryan’s scheme until he has a full off-season to put it in and have the guys be comfortable with it (i.e., the guys should be running Rex’s defense, not thinking about the defense). I think one problem in 2011 is that neither James nor Brooking were suited for the role of the quick linebacker blitzing through the gaps opened up by Ryan’s scheme.

If Bruce Carter can hold up, he might be a guy that can give you 4-7 unexpected sacks during the year.

Also remember, that while getting sacks are great, you don’t need a sack to be effective in disrupting the passing game. Still the Cowboys were 7th in the league in sacks this year.

that neither James nor Brooking were suited for the role of the quick linebacker blitzing through the gaps opened up by Ryan’s scheme.

that is why we need a huge nt…..Rat isn’t big enough to occupy 2 blockers for the whole duration of the play. He isn’t big enough. If he get’s stonewalled on his initial push then it’s Katy bar the door. No ilb will get inside.

Point 2. blitzing ilb’s means fewer defenders in coverage. This is why the Gmen are having success. They rush 4 drop 7 in coverage and just dare you to beat them.

I’m really hyped about picking up Calais or Mario if at all possible. Both have dream combos’ of speed and size/power. With Mario in particular, I don’t see why he can’t play with his hand on the ground at the 5 unless he’s just averse to mixing it up in the trenches. It’s another reason I’ve always kind of liked the idea of Rat at DE. Another guy with the same sort of physical combo. Poe at NT? Bring it on! Absorb as many blockers as possible, and we’ll see opposing QBs’ running for their lives! Too much to get blocked adequately.

They do have more responsibilty in stopping the run on 1st down and short to medium yardage plays because of only two deep LBs. There’s no reason why you couldn’t substitute quicker more mobile lineman on passing downs. The problem is we don’t have them. Ingram would be ideal for this because he can play anywhere, OLB, DE, wherever RR wants to put him. RR would salivate at the prospect of Ingram in his scheme.

Got a ton of sacks from ends – remember George Martin and Leonard Marshall??? I bet Danny White and Troy Aikman do!!

Agree with previous posters – The Cowboys can’t or won’t draft decent 3-4 ends.

They can’t and won’t draft good de. You gotta look at how coordinators like to scheme wade for example is a linebacker guy. He likes fast smart agile backers to do his dirty work. Left his averaged de and dt to just eat up blocks they where expected to stop the run not rush the passer. He had been successful to an extent. Now he may have found out that he really likes a pass rushing de in watt this year. Look at lebous scheme. He like to keep his olb around the same skill set around 10 or so sacks a season but he get good pressure with his safteys cornerbacks and ilb. However he likes space eating de pretty much have to double all three of his downlinemen. Capers is kinda the same he likes him a big fast nt and would rather rush his de than eat space. Now its all up to rob what he wants bit with the move of Coleman last year it left me wondering about his scheme. I know he likes to get open lanes for his stunts and twists and things of that nature. Although we do know he likes big nt and faster de. Maybe he needed a guy who knew the system in Coleman. I can only hope. But I have faith in him to straighten this mess of a line out and get him the talents and size he needs. Jj should listen to him and jg should also and we should be OK this year.

If the Cowboys had a real defensive end they could “cover up” Spencer.

exhibit 2 a. JJ Watt…………………Dallas wiill never have a guy like that because they can’t draft guys like that….

Tru you make a great point