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Dallas Cowboys Offseason: Looking Forward By Looking Back, PFF Style

Marcus Spears reacts to seeing his name at the bottom of PFF's team grades for the third time in four years

Like most of you, I'm constantly inspired by BTB's front page writers. Luckily, I'm in a position where I can turn that into a little front-page somethin' of my own. So, in the wake of Tom's speculation about the Cowboys' offseason plans and KD's missive on on the roster churn since the thrilling yet oh-so-disappointing 2007 season, I thought I'd combine the two, looking back to look forward. Inspired by O.C.C.'s recent look at Dallas' 2011 AV figures, I'll do so by taking a look at some numbers.

What I'd like to do is use Pro Football Focus' final player grades from the last four seasons. The guys at PFF, as most of you know, grade each player on each play, coming up with per-game and season totals, in a variety of categories. For offensive players, these are Pass, Rush, Pass Block, Screen Block, Run Block and Penalty. Most of these categories are self-evident: offensive linemen, for example, don't receive Pass or Rush grades, and most skill position players receive 0.0 screen block grades. From these, we can get a pretty fair understanding of how an individual player performed.

Today, we'll look only at their cumulative season totals. For each season, I've listed all the players, on both sides of the ball, who received final marks "in the red"--in other words, who graded out below -1.0 for the season. What I'm interested in is to see how many of these players a) continued to receive "red" grades; b) were cut from the roster; c) continued to remain on the roster and d) if so, why and for how long. I've clumsily fashioned a table for each year, with offensive players in the left hand column and defensive guys on the right. After each table, I'll interject a couple of random thoughts.

Ready? Check out Rabble's Tables after the jump...

Star-divide

NOTE: Players cut after the season are marked in bold and with a red background; rookies are marked with an asterisk* and do not have a background shading, all others have a yellow background and are marked in italics (because many of them had to duck in order not to get cut).

2008:

2008 Offense 2008 Defense
Terrell Owens -1.3 Anthony Henry -1.2
Marion Barber -1.7 Tra Battle -1.4
Deon Anderson -1.8 Roy L. Williams -1.6
Brooks Bollinger -2.1 Marcus Spears -2.3
*Martellus Bennett -2.5 Keith Davis -2.5
Tony Romo -2.8 Terence Newman -2.8
*Tashard Choice -3.0 Tank Johnson -2.9
Marc Colombo -5.4 Pat Watkins -5.1
Tony Curtis -7.2 Greg Ellis -5.9
Kyle Kosier -7.4 *Mike Jenkins -8.3
Roy E. Williams -9.4
Flozell Adams -13.4
Brad Johnson -13.4
Cory Procter -19.7

A few thoughts: after the 2008 season, the Cowboys purged a significant portion of their defensive deadwood. The only "in the red" players they retained were first-round draft picks, with either the talent or the big contract that justified keeping them around. On the other side of the ball, the team's offensive line woes were clear. Just as clear was the organization's decision to go with their stable of big uglies for at least one more campaign--a decision that paid off, as we'll see below. Oh, and Roy E. Williams makes the first of three appearances on this list of bottom-feeders.

2009:

2009 Offense 2009 Defense
Martellus Bennett -1.2 Steve Octavian -1.5
Flozell Adams -1.6 Marcus Spears -1.6
Roy E. Williams -8.3 Ken Hamlin -2.2
Orlando Scandrick -3.6
*Victor Butler -3.8
Bobby Carpenter -8.2

A few thoughts: the 2008 offensive line did indeed bounce back--for one year, at least. The only O-lineman in the red was Flozell, who was summarily released. As might be expected from a 2009 campaign in which the "Boys got off the playoff win schneid, there were a lot more "green" performances than "red" ones...with two notable exceptions. In a plus year for the entire organization, Roy E. Williams and Bobby Carpenter managed to earn significantly lower scores than anybody else on the team. Not surprisingly, Carpenter was released in the offseason; shockingly, Williams was not.

2010:

2010 Offense 2010 Defense
Tashard Choice -1.2 Brandon Williams -1.2
Kevin Ogletree -2.0 Jason Williams -1.5
Roy E. Williams -2.5 Jeremy Clark -1.9
*Phil Costa -3.3 *Bryan McCann -2.4
Marion Barber -3.8 *Barry Church -4.4
Miles Austin -6.8 Terence Newman -8.4
Stephen McGee -6.8 Alan Ball -9.6
Jon Kitna -8.7 Mike Jenkins -10.8
Marc Colombo -34.1

A few thoughts: The most obvious is that Marc Colombo's grade is horrific--and makes it obvious why he had to be released and Tyron Smith brought in (Smith, by the way, earned a 13.7 grade from PFF, for a total positional improvement of +47.8. Pretty good). Other than Colombo, however, the various heads that rolled due to Dallas' offseason O-line purge weren't "in the red." In fact, looking at this, the unit that received the most consistently low grades was the secondary. Lo and behold, this is precisely the unit that plagued the team in 2011. While I agreed with the offensive line purge at the time--and still do--this makes me wonder what might have happened had they rolled with the likes of Davis and Gurode for one more year, and focused on upgrading the secondary last season (I'm not sure this was financially feasible; due to the CBA negotiations, Dallas had a rare opportunity to cook the books, and get rid of some bad contracts, and did so).

The Cowboys bid goodbye to a couple of 2009 draft busts in Brandon and Jason Williams. Gentlemen, we hardly knew ye...

Finally, after three straight years on this ignominious list, Roy E. Williams was released. At last.

2011:

2011 Offense 2011 Defense
Kevin Ogletree -2.5 *Alex Albright -1.1
Stephen McGee -3.4 *Bruce Carter -1.7
Derrick Dockery -3.8 Marcus Spears -3.6
Tashard Choice -4.7 Bradie James -4.1
John Phillips -5.5 Frank Walker -5.1
Kyle Kosier -6.0 Abe Elam -5.3
Tony Fiammetta -7.6 Alan Ball -5.5
*Bill Nagy -9.0 Orlando Scandrick -5.6
Phil Costa -9.7 Keith Brooking -7.9
Doug Free -9.9 Terence Newman -9.1

A few thoughts: Clearly, Dallas continues to have offensive line problems: four of their five starters finished "in the red." Ouch. However, other than Phil Costa (and perhaps Kyle Kosier), I don't see any of the guys at the bottom of the offensive list being cut, due either to contract status or potential upside. The defensive side of the ball is a different story, however: I could see (and expect to) all the defensive guys other than the two rookies and Scandrick soon becoming ex-Cowboys...including Marcus Spears, who makes his third appearance in four years on this rollcall of infamy.

General thoughts: The Cowboys have had real trouble at backup quarterback in recent years. Other than 2009, when Tony Romo played every snap, they have had at least one quarterback on this list, and twice (2008 and 2010, seasons in which Romo missed time due to injury) managed to place two. And we wonder why the Cowboys brass wants to upgrade the offensive line!

After making the list his first two years in the league, Martellus Bennett has upped his game--so much so that, in 2010 (with a +13.1 grade) and 2011 (+7.8), he finished with the fifth-highest offensive marks. In 2011, he--gasp--graded out higher than Jason Witten. This is largely due to his superior run blocking; if, as expected, the Cowboys make no effort to re-sign Bennett, they will be hard pressed to replace his production.

And: I'm not pleased to see Scandrick's and Jenkins's names appear on these lists multiple times....

So, BTBers, what do you make of 2011's Hall of Shame? Assuming you were the GM and these were your self-scouting grades, how would you formulate your offseason plan?

Comment 245 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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good point

I’m coming around to the opinion that Spencer isn’t the problem here: its Spears and the other DEs

by rabblerousr on Feb 1, 2012 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

He's not a difference maker

But he’s worth another reasonable contract. I want to see the organization play a little hardball with him, though.

by ary201 on Feb 1, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Which other DEs?

Spencer is not on the list, but they are not either.

by Baked Potato Soup on Feb 1, 2012 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Well...

Hatcher graded fairly well by PFF and Coleman did okay, but between the two of them you have enough snaps to have a full starting season. Like any advanced stat it needs a large enough sample size, but they each only played 400 snaps or so.

by Omar Little on Feb 1, 2012 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

It looks like the rotation graded out well, except Spears.

In limited snaps, Lissemore, Hatcher and Coleman all had good marks. Considering that we use a rotation, where do you think the improvement needs to be?

by Baked Potato Soup on Feb 1, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe he is the biggest problem

I think the DL could stand to improve, perhaps at least rocks on the DL but not a pure Ratliff and two other guys rotating type situation. I still think the biggest problem is the defensive backfield, though. A new corner to replace Newman and someone to replace Brooking/Bradie (probably Bruce Carter) and some depth there and I think you can put a bow on the defense. IMO, the biggest problem is still the OL.

Finding a new DB and deciding whether or not Doug Free can play RT again are probably number one on their priority list before the draft.

by Omar Little on Feb 1, 2012 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

There should be a clear above average player in the unit

these single digit scores that go from -4 to +4 just seem to me the score of an average player. 0.4 WAR.

If Rat moves to DE and gives us a difference maker from the DE spot where Spears was, I think it’s a positive, but Brent and Lissemore need to give us a solid player at the nose.

by ary201 on Feb 1, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I would say so

But the case could be made from scores like this. I don’t know how they extrapolate. Divide by ten? Was Columbo a -3.4 WAR player? Maybe, maybe.

by ary201 on Feb 1, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Three losses to one guy?

I dunno…he was downright terrible, three losses terrible, I dunno man. That’s quite a few.

by Omar Little on Feb 1, 2012 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Or maybe we shouldn't be talking about PFF grades like they are infalable

It’s difficult to grade someone if you don’t know what their responsibility was, and the level of competition, doubles teams. It’ hard to know what factors they put into each grade. Just because Spencer didn’t get a negative grade doesn’t mean he wasn’t a problem. It may give you a very general idea, but it’s not gospel.

by just4fun on Feb 2, 2012 12:15 AM CST up reply actions  

His grade was actually very positive.

They take all the factors you mentioned into account. Have you even read how they grade players?

by Omar Little on Feb 2, 2012 12:46 AM CST up reply actions  

It doesn't matter how they grade players, it still the opinion of the person that wrote the grade down

PFF and FO try to advertise like their numbers are factual but they are not. FO in particular use faulty statistical analysis. These sites are more concerned with marketing and getting the brand out. I’m sure they’ve worked out some kind of deal with SB nation to get there name out. It’s not fact. It’s not like looking at the number of sacks a player got. I hate Spencer by the way. He’s lazy and quits on plays. He may be good against the run, but OLBs don’t get paid to stop the run, they get paid to rush the passer. Both NE and the Giants are horrible at running the football. In todays NFL you have to be able to stop the Pass, in the 80’s it was the opposite.

by just4fun on Feb 2, 2012 1:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Ahhh...my mistake, I just remembered who you are.

I forgot you’re that idiot that had Spencer bang your wife. Now I recall your personal vendetta against the man.

by Omar Little on Feb 2, 2012 1:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Apparently the coaching staff doesn't put him in the HOF like you do.

He hasn’t been approached for a new deal.

Several others share my view of Spencer.

by just4fun on Feb 2, 2012 1:27 AM CST up reply actions  

this defense was horrible with very few difference makers

At some point you have to stop making excuses for nobodies on this team. It’s more than just a bad secondary. D. Ware was the only one getting to the quarterback.

by just4fun on Feb 2, 2012 1:29 AM CST up reply actions  

um spencer lead the team in Tackles for a loss and

Was second in the league in QB pressures/hits for SOLBs. Where are your stats to back up your claims? It seems to me YOU are the person who is judging on emotions. Sure he isn’t Ware but tell me who is?

"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!

by mho on Feb 3, 2012 2:38 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

gettin a lil personal there eh Omar hahaha

"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22

"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy

by DarkKnight88 on Feb 2, 2012 1:37 AM CST up reply actions  

just shows his feelings on Spencer are more based on emotion that what happened on the field

I can’t see how anyone would want him on this team after the Giants and Philly games. He dissappeared during those games. and people want to get rid of Romo for how he plays in big games….

by just4fun on Feb 2, 2012 2:14 AM CST up reply actions  

when i watch spencer play it just seems like

there’s something missing, does the guy suck? No, but he’s also not someone who can change the game or build ur team around.. If this team could find an upgrade i wouldn’t mind letting him walk.

"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22

"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy

by DarkKnight88 on Feb 2, 2012 4:27 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah he's never changed a game...

His strip sack against a solid Washington Oline didn’t have anything to do with us getting a W! Is Spencer GREAT? No, but he is above average and the FO would be hard pressed to replace him.

"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!

by mho on Feb 3, 2012 2:42 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

smh 1st of all the skins oline isn't that solid

don’t kid yourself, n 2nd WOW!! 1 game dude that’s like freaking awesome i mean its not like bobby carpenter ever got a pick 6 to change momentum or alan ball picked off elite manning to seal the game last season or sterling moore knocked the ball from lee evans hands.

I’m sure u can find a list of players that have made 1 or 2 plays to affect “a” game so perhaps i should’ve said “games” or maybe u couldn’t read between the lines in the point i was making so let me keep it simple for u is spencer a guy u can build ur team around? Should spencer just be let go with no replacement? Of course not cause its just another hole to fill but don’t make it sound like he’s irreplaceable.

Now let this be known i’m not just picking on anthony this goes for anybody, if there’s upgrades to be had @ any position then no player is invincible so that goes for romo, witt, rat, ware, lee, dez etc i’m a fan of the team 1st players 2nd.. If u could tell me there’s better players available then i’m all ears.

"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22

"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy

by DarkKnight88 on Feb 3, 2012 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

oh I agree.

I was also sighting an example that stood out to me. The difference with the players you listed is that Spencer is far and away a better player. I do agree with upgrading a position if it is available, but we have bigger concerns at this point. With a true NT, Rat at LDE, and better coverage Spencer’s production should increase. That’s all I’m saying.

"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!

by mho on Feb 3, 2012 11:22 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Man i've been wanting a true NT ever since ferguson was

put on IR ur preaching to the coir there.. There’s still so many holes to fill this offseason this is true so if spencer doesn’t break the bank sure resign the guy but i think this team will be better to make a deep playoff run starting in 13, of course as a fan i want success now.. If this team gets solid drafts these next 2 seasons like they did in 10 n 11 the franchise should be in good shape.

"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22

"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy

by DarkKnight88 on Feb 4, 2012 6:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh i won't even deny that i hate little manning he's a division rival

n also cause i’m angry that the boys aren’t representing the NFC. With that said i can’t deny that Eli has been ballin the past month, excuse my while i go throw up.

"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22

"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy

by DarkKnight88 on Feb 2, 2012 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Well no I'm saying he probably hates a Cowboy more than a division rival

Which is why I’m lead to believe that his wife or mother his carrying Spencer’s bastard child. There’s no other explanation for this hatred.

by Omar Little on Feb 3, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Lol
Which is why I’m lead to believe that his wife or mother his carrying Spencer’s bastard child.

I think that’s a pretty legit reason to hate somebody cause i definitely would if in that same situation.. Now maybe i’m just not reading as much into it as possible but i just get the feeling that just doesn’t actually hate spencer personally just hates his play on the field then again who knows, either way we all got opinions right?

As far as hatred goes eh i’ll save that for the div, niners, steelers, pats u know teams like that.. Its like i said above tho if there’s any player that can upgrade any position then dallas needs to sign him up.

"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22

"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy

by DarkKnight88 on Feb 3, 2012 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

There's opportunity costs for upgrades

If they make a marginal upgrade over Spencer they won’t have the resources to make big upgrades on the OL or at corner.

by Omar Little on Feb 3, 2012 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

no doubt the oline n corner need to be upgraded

n i know some fans are willing to give the yuglies some time but i just don’t feel confident in this group, i would luv if arkin, nagy, costa turned out to be ballers but i ain’t holding my breath.

If the team had a solid qb in the waitings then i’d be all for throwing romo to the wolves but not @ this moment the man has been beat up the past 3 of 4 seasons that line needs fixing asap.. Newman, ball, walker, elam it was nice knowing ya but peace out & jenkins contract is up after this next season.

A lot of positions to be addressed its gonna take more than this draft n fa to solve em all.. I am impressed with Stephen Jones tho, i was under the impression the team would be in cap HELL for the next couple seasons n now i’m hearing the team will have around 20 mil to spend this yr so kudos to him.

"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22

"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy

by DarkKnight88 on Feb 4, 2012 6:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Spencer's shortcomings can't be heaped on the shoulders of others...

Two things can be equally true…

1) We need to get better at DE in terms of creating pressure.

2) Spencer is not beating his man, one-on-one, to bring any semblence of consistent pressure opposite of Ware.

Two forks in my eye > Watching an Aubrey Huff at-bat in '11

by Phillyboijr on Feb 1, 2012 6:08 PM CST up reply actions  

what?

Spencer was second in the league out of all LOLB in QB pressures. QBs just step up into the pocket because the line isn’t getting a push and collapsing the picket! So how is it that he doesn’t get pressure on the QB now?

"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!

by mho on Feb 1, 2012 11:30 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

depends on what you call a pressure

He doesn’t pass the eyeball test. Which I trust more than stats.

by just4fun on Feb 2, 2012 12:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Can't be....

U can’t say the others guys grades are their opinions and therefore should not be taken as fact and then claim the guy failed your “eyeball test”. I trust somebodys opinion backed by actual numbers more than a fans eyeball test

by Frankster_1 on Feb 2, 2012 9:44 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

oh your a Pro scout.?

Sorry I didn’t know. Inform me, what college course in athletics teaches the Eyeball test; I’d like to take it.?!

"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!

by mho on Feb 3, 2012 2:44 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

^this is directed at Just4Fun

"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!

by mho on Feb 3, 2012 2:46 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Really?

So Spencer was simply being screwed by the d-lines lack of pressure up the middle? Hmmmm, someone forgot to tell D. Ware about that.

BTW, please provide the link to the info you’re referencing.

Two forks in my eye > Watching an Aubrey Huff at-bat in '11

by Phillyboijr on Feb 2, 2012 1:32 AM CST up reply actions  

If you need excuses for a player, it's a real sign you need a new player

When you have D.Ware on the other side, and never get double teamed, there is no excuse.

by just4fun on Feb 2, 2012 2:23 AM CST up reply actions  

I must ask you.

Did you excuse Austin for a subpar year when ROMO went down with a broken collar bone? Remember, you cannot excuse a player for not having the correct personnel in place if their performance isn’t what YOU think it should be!

"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!

by mho on Feb 3, 2012 3:04 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

D-Ware might be a top ten passrusher of all time.

So just because Ware can do it doesn’t mean everyone else can.

by Omar Little on Feb 2, 2012 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Brilliant logic.

So as long as D. Ware is on the opposite side, we should accept mediocrity.

Two forks in my eye > Watching an Aubrey Huff at-bat in '11

by Phillyboijr on Feb 2, 2012 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Sweet!

While you’re book shopping at Amazon, checkout the philosophy section and pickup: Intro to Logic, or maybe more your speed…Logic for Dummies.

Read them and then report back to me with at least a 500 summary of what you learned.

Two forks in my eye > Watching an Aubrey Huff at-bat in '11

by Phillyboijr on Feb 2, 2012 2:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

ouch.

"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!

by mho on Feb 3, 2012 2:47 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Yeah this joke doesn't really work.

1.) You’re basically making the same joke I already made. It’s like two kids saying “You’re dumb, couldn’t even pass a urine test” and then the other one says “No YOU’RE the dumb one!!!! I bet you failed that test too!!!!” So that doesn’t work.

Second, I suggested that DeMarcus Ware has extraordinary capabilities for an NFL player so he’s not the bench mark for other players on the defense. Why not break Sean Lee and Jay Ratliff’s balls for not being as good of a pass rusher while were at it? Just because Ware can do something doesn’t mean that every other player on the defense should be able to do it too. Ware’s a Hall of Famer, the other players on the defense should be held to a different standard.

You took that to mean that every player should be mediocre. Some where in that pea brain of your’s you associated “not-elite” and “mediocre” to mean the same thing. I guess Clay Matthews and LaMarr Woodley are mediocre OLBs too.

by Omar Little on Feb 3, 2012 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Lol...smh

Why are you insisting on bringing up Ware when discussing Spencer’s play?

This is exactly what I’m talking about. Spencer apologist create a strawman by saying “well, who really expects Spencer to do what Ware does?”

Heres the problem bonehead, I NEVER compared Spencer to Ware in terms of production.

Notice I keep asking Omar to reference who made that argument, but he just keeps ignoring the request and continues in that same line of argument.

Answer the question boy.

Two forks in my eye > Watching an Aubrey Huff at-bat in '11

by Phillyboijr on Feb 3, 2012 4:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Couldn't have said the following any better myself, so blockquote!
Here is what Pat Kirwan had to say on this subject on Bob Sturm’s site:

http://sturminator.blogspot.com/

Pat Kirwan: "We always talk about the 3-4 outside linebackers when talking with Bill Cowher, and he wants to start with his defensive ends. Go Study the tapes. Aaron Smith sets up a lot of things. He’s so good that he forces the tackle to go with him into the B-gap and then the outside rusher is on a back. The guys that build (The 3-4 schemes) will tell you to start right there (with the defensive ends). Not with the outside linebackers. They are the finishing touch – we are going to set it up so that they are going to be on backs a lot, and when that happens, you are going to win."

"Most guys treat Dallas as if they are a 4-3 defense. They don’t believe DeMarcus is ever going to drop and they don’t believe the other guy is that much of a threat, so they look at you as if you are what we call a "4-3 Under". If you stop the film right after the snap, the Cowboys look just like a 4-3 under defense all of the time."

"I think if you were playing a true 3-4, then Ratliff should not be a nose tackle. He should be out, just like Vince Wilfork, who is playing more as a 5-technique quite a bit now and I think Haloti Ngata got everybody creatively thinking about how to do it. But as long as you are playing basically a 4-3 defense and Ratliff is basically a 1-gap player, he’s ok there."

Kirwan was then asked about the wisdom of ever dropping Ware into coverage. Why would you ever drop your best rusher into pass defense?

"You better do it once in a while, because if you don’t, they will just call him the end in the protection schemes and the tackle is always going to turn to him. And the guard will always turn to the "5-technique" and the back will always be on the (inside) linebacker."

by ScarletO on Feb 2, 2012 7:41 PM PST reply actions 3 recs

by DCB* on Feb 3, 2012 5:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I ask you the same thing.

It has been common knowledge that a 3-4 defense requires a NT who can chew up blockers and collapse the pocket. Why do we want the pocket collapsed? SO THE QB CANNOT STEP UP IN TO IT TO AVOID THE PASS RUSH! Ware is a specimen and there is no way that if we had another OLB of his caliber could we keep them both. I am not a huge fan of AA but I understand that if he walks people like you will be screaming with another reason as to why JJ should hire a GM by next offseason. This is of course unless we neglect our other more pressing needs and grab a stellar OLB to replace him. Personally I hope we land a solid NT, keep AA, and my comments are correct. But alas that will not happen because JJ sees our dline as a strength and will not address it. It is sad really! Rat and Spence could be so much better with the correct personnel in place.

"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!

by mho on Feb 3, 2012 3:00 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Yeah I agree with a lot of this too...

I mean I like Spencer okay, I think he gets a lot of stupid or overly emotional people place unfair expectations on him and think he’s easy to upgrade. My question is, how tangible would this upgrade be? If it’s Clay Matthews they’re plugging in, obviously I’m all for it, but I don’t think that’s the scenario. Lets say Upshaw, how many more games would they win with Upshaw over Spencer? Lets say Ingram over Spencer? How much better than Spencer would these guys need to be in order to make a tangible difference? What would happen if they can’t contain the run like Spencer?

It seems that they’d be better off finding a corner to replace Newman, a guard to step in for Koiser, or another Center. That seems to be where the biggest upgrade’s available. Fix the biggest problems before you upgrade on the margins.

by Omar Little on Feb 3, 2012 12:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I mean this in the most sincerest flattering way...

You’re a highly functioning idiot.

Two forks in my eye > Watching an Aubrey Huff at-bat in '11

by Phillyboijr on Feb 3, 2012 4:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

you couldn't think of a reply so you insult me...hmmm

Just because you add sugar to poison does not make the poison less effective! I’m no idiot in fact I just proved it wit my spelling and grammar usage. Lol. I just have a difference if opinion and allowed myself to get worked up. For that I apologize.

"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!

by mho on Feb 3, 2012 9:52 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

smh....

“I’m no idiot in fact I just proved it wit my spelling and grammar usage.”

Looooooool….I wasn’t even speaking to you, but thanks for the comedy relief nevertheless.

Two forks in my eye > Watching an Aubrey Huff at-bat in '11

by Phillyboijr on Feb 4, 2012 1:31 PM CST up reply actions  

yep

"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!

by mho on Feb 3, 2012 9:48 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Terence Newman...

….a consistent bag of trash for us in the secondary.

Two forks in my eye > Watching an Aubrey Huff at-bat in '11

by Phillyboijr on Feb 1, 2012 1:14 PM CST reply actions  

Spears....largely invisable

Have no idea why he was resigned. Sensabaugh, Scandrick? Even worse, I always see there numbers from the back when the other team scores touchdowns.

by Cwon1 on Feb 1, 2012 1:20 PM CST reply actions  

Sensabaugh's name didn't appear on this list once.

Scandrick was below average this year because he was the 1st or 2nd corner in some games instead of the third, usually he’s only -1 or -2, which considering he’s the 3rd corner isn’t that bad.

by Omar Little on Feb 1, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Wasn't he re-signed because he accepted a very reasonable contract?

I don’t have a problem with giving solid guys reasonable deals, but at some point you have to invest resources into finding difference makers at every level. Spears was never going to be anything but an average to below avg starter, problem is we rely on Ratliff to make the difference and he didn’t.

by ary201 on Feb 1, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

He was cheap and the FO seams to think DE in 3-4 are a dime a dozen and not worthy of seaking them high in the draft or retaining them if we find one late..

I think/hope that that line of thinking has changed. And as much as I am for the Cowboys addressing the d-line early in the draft, it,s hard not to justify them going DB first as our horrible d-line did in fact finish 7th in sacks this year, although I´d like to know how that came, whether off blitzes (rushing 5 +) or just good line play (4 = d-line plus Ware with 19.5). If anybody has stats or info on that I would love to see it.

by DCB* on Feb 1, 2012 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

The DB problem

is simply too large to ignore. Pro Football Focus did an analysis of the Dallas secondary and gave it a -36.6 rating. As far as our corners were concerned, out of 109 CBs rated by PFF, Jenkins was rated #40, Ball #82, Scandrick #83, and Newman (the 8 million dollar man) 97th. It only gets better. When looking at completion percentage, our second highest paid CB Scandrick, was targeted 62 times with 43 catches for a completion percentate of 69.4 which ranks in the top ten worst for a CB. Now Scandrick plays the slot but almost %70 is inexcusable. Revis of the Jets completion percentage was 41.2.

No pass rush is going to help these atrocious numbers. We need to sign Nicks to strengthen the O-Line and pray Janoris Jenkins or Kirkpatrick fall to us. We can’t draft JAG corners. Also, Mike Jenkins is only signed through 2013. This secondary could take two drafts.

by jevans1729 on Feb 1, 2012 3:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Newman has no excuses he lost his step

As for scandrick even ball I do credit his coach for alot of his play. He has the makings for a good slot corner. Just doesn’t have the right technique. Guys like scandrick get threw college on speed and toughness at the line. In the NFL is where they refine there technique and become good corners. Ball and scandrick have not had the opportunity to refine there technique. I will give each a chance to improve under new coaching before I make my mind up to cut them loose.

by Sado44 on Feb 1, 2012 5:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

To be fair to Scandrick

Scandrick played the slot most of the time and his numbers should be compared to other slot CBs. Unfortunately, it’s not easy to figure out who the slot CBs are on the other teams, but from the handful I’ve looked at, they all have numbers in the same ballpark as Scandrick does.

by One.Cool.Customer on Feb 1, 2012 5:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I hear you

as respects the diffuculty of the slot CBs. The PFF rating for Scandrick leads the reader to believe that all CBs were considered whether they played in the slot or not and Scandrick came in like the 5th worst out of 10. Now if the rating was for just slot CBs, that would make some sense but it still wouldn’t explain his overall rank of #83 out of 109 of the CBs rated.

by jevans1729 on Feb 2, 2012 8:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Scandrick here, I'll excuse

He’s the 3rd corner, which is basically a starting position in today’s NFL. That being said, he spent a lot of time starting for an injured Mike Jenkins and other various injuries in the secondary. Jenkins’ 2010 I’ll also give him a mulligan on, mostly because everyone on the defense sucked that year. Hard to blame him for collapsing.

by Omar Little on Feb 1, 2012 1:33 PM CST reply actions  

I think I'm okay with Scandrick.

Everybody sees that the league is pretty pass happy nowadays.. corners are getting beat all around the league, ya know? I wonder how many 3rd corners are really better than him.

by BigDumbFace on Feb 1, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

He my be the starting CB.

The only prefect science is hindsight............Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Feb 1, 2012 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

If Nicks, Cruz, and DeSean leave the division then yes it'd be okay.

And it smells like someone crapped their pants in the classroom I’m in. Gross. Now I know what it smells like to play next to Terrence Newman.

by Omar Little on Feb 1, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, maybe.

I don’t think he will be. The team sounds pretty serious about upgrading the secondary, it seems like a starter on the other corner would be part of that.

by BigDumbFace on Feb 1, 2012 2:33 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Yeah, Newman was the problem.

They’ll need to add three corners this year, ideally it’d be something like Finnegan in FA, Jenkins or GIlmore in the 2nd, and Jamel Flemming in the 4th. I guess if they sign Nicks to a good deal and DeCastro’s gone Dre in the 1st wouldn’t be a bad idea either.

by Omar Little on Feb 1, 2012 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Colombo was even worse than I thought. I've assumed that the decision

to cut Gurode, and Davis had as much to do with the money they were being paid as their performances. They were declining and making a lot of money in the meantime, were they not (not sure what Davis’ salary was)? I think it was all part of cap hell this year. Unfortunately, Romo’s rib and hand were the casualties.

That said, I supported the retooling, too. If I had it to do again, not sure what I’d want. I do know that the Cowboys have to continue to improve that line if they don’t want another year of Romo being used as a punching bag.

I’m a little surprised by the grades on Phillips and Fiammetta.

by Fernie67 on Feb 1, 2012 1:49 PM CST reply actions  

I don't think that PFF grades fullbacks very well.

I’m not really sure what they’re looking for out of them. I know that Phillips and Fiammetta are more ‘get in the way’ type blockers than blowing people out of holes, so maybe that affected their grade with PFF.

by Baked Potato Soup on Feb 1, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I share this assessment

Having said that, I do not know how PFF grade fullbacks exactly, but I also know that it is fashionable among Cowboys fans to give all the credit to Fiammetta and all the blame to the linemen. And if someone really did an eye test on Fiammetta you’ll have seen some very good blocks but also some gigantic misses where you could only think, WTF.

by One.Cool.Customer on Feb 1, 2012 2:23 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Well, good point on Fiammetta. I'm still surprised at how low his score is,

although BPS asks a good question, but I do remember Fiammetta having some bad misses after he came back from his inner ear thing. At least if feels as if he was committing more errors after he came back. I guess I’d need to see his game-by-game grades.

by Fernie67 on Feb 1, 2012 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Fiammetta

In the 8 games that Murray started, Tony was healthy and played in 5 of them. It might just be me, but in those 3 games he missed, the running game looked off. It was a grind, nothing came easy.

Also, in 2 of the first 3 losses (Detroit and New England) he was absent. In those games, the Boys couldn’t engage in run out the clock. The running game was ineffective, especially the Patriots game.

"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."

by Rohpuri on Feb 2, 2012 2:11 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah the fiammetta grade dosent pass the eye test.

All i know is when we had him we were almost a lock to have a 100+ yard ground game. Thats the only grade i need to see

by Proxy406 on Feb 1, 2012 2:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Take a look at the run defenses in some of those games. As OCC says above, Fiammetta showed some flashes. He also whiffed on plenty of occasions and pro football focus heavily penalizes mistakes (drops, penalties, missed blocks, etc).

by Nassau Cowboy on Feb 1, 2012 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I stand by what i said

Sure he had a missed block or two. A few even memorable. But nothink chris gronkowaki like, and certainly his aid to prodction cant be argued.

I challenge anyone to say (competenly) that we were a better running team. Or really offensive team. With out him than with him.

by Proxy406 on Feb 1, 2012 4:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

It may have been

that when a FB is in the game the team runs more I formation sets. That let’s the back have a little extra time to see where the hole is and have a blocker directly in front of him.

by jevans1729 on Feb 1, 2012 4:56 PM CST up reply actions  

He certainly did whiff on a few...

Fiametta added some much needed lead blocking, but he certainly did miss more than a few blocks, often running right past them failing to make good contact.

Two forks in my eye > Watching an Aubrey Huff at-bat in '11

by Phillyboijr on Feb 3, 2012 5:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I wish stuff like this was more readily available.

Too many people here get down on a guy for whatever reason, and think just because he isn’t getting double digit sacks or eight or nine TDs that he isn’t good. There’s lots of little things that you don’t notice when you watch the game. Birddog is the only one here that’s a pro-scout, the rest of us are amateurs. Yeah, Bennett’s been a pretty damn good player the past two years, Phillips hasn’t. All of the sudden we expect Phillips to do what Bennett did…that doesn’t sit well with me. Spencer hasn’t been on this list once, and he gets labeled a “JAG,” and a guy that’s easily replaceable.

by Omar Little on Feb 1, 2012 1:53 PM CST reply actions  

Spencer does a good job,

he’s good against the run and can cover. He’s not going to be cheap to resign, other teams know he is a good player.

The only prefect science is hindsight............Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Feb 1, 2012 1:58 PM CST reply actions  

It seems that some BTB just dislike him, I saw on a post some time ago (here on BTB) that showed Spencer is at or near the top

in almost all the categories when compared to other SOLB. Cowboys problem is 2 fold (more than that i´m sure, but not bringing everything up right now), D-Line and DB. Other than Lissemore we haven´t drafted any D-Lineman in like 4 years and other than Spears and Canty none higher than the 3rd round. DB, same here. I tend to wonder how Almost Anthony´s and our d-lines sack total would have been if we had better play at DB. BTW people forget that on most plays Spencer has to diagnose before he decides to rush the passer

by DCB* on Feb 1, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, he'd grade a lot higher if it wasn't for his terrible performance in Week 17.

Clearly an aberration, worst game he’s played as a pro. Also left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. Hey, football fans think with their gut not their brain, what can you do.

by Omar Little on Feb 1, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Well...

He’s definitely something worth holding onto, you can do better but doing better is no easy task. It’s not guaranteed by any means that you will do better. People like Upshaw? Well one he might not be a better pass rusher and two there’s a good chance he isn’t half the run stopper. I guess, Ingram is probably the only guy I’d like in the first to replace Spencer.

by Omar Little on Feb 1, 2012 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

But, so many more holes need to be filled.

The only prefect science is hindsight............Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Feb 1, 2012 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Ding ding ding...

OL, and the secondary is a mess. The OL needs at least two new players, the DL probably needs some depth and someone to there incase Coleman, Lissemore, or Hatcher can’t handle a full time starting job. The secondary needs two or three more corners and a safety prospect. Not to mention a back up QB and a 3rd RB that has an eye on replacing Felix.

by Omar Little on Feb 1, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Sure.

I’m just not okay with thinking that there is no way we could do better than Spencer.

Let me ask you this since you mention a few of the LB’s that might go in the first round probably not being as good at stopping the run.. Isn’t it more valuable to rush the passer instead of stop the run?

by BigDumbFace on Feb 1, 2012 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

You act like Spencer is a below average pass rusher

He’s not. He’s simply not as good as we hoped.

by ary201 on Feb 1, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd say he's an average rusher at best.

I’d like better than average because I think it would make a huge difference. For the record, I think a better OL or DE would make a difference as well. We can upgrade more than one player at a time.

by BigDumbFace on Feb 1, 2012 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

And he should be evaluated as such

against other FA.

I just don’t want the reasoning for not keeping Spencer because we plan on drafting a pass rusher. It should be Spencer or FA1, FA2, or FA3.

by ary201 on Feb 1, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I understand that.

It could really blow up in Dallas’ face if they let Spencer walk, he gets a reasonable contract elsewhere, they take a first round OLB and he turns out to not be an upgrade as a pass rusher. That would hurt.

Do you have anyone in mind when you’re talking about FA?

by BigDumbFace on Feb 1, 2012 3:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Not really

It all depends on who gets franchised. The big names are floating out there like Mario Williams and Robert Mathis (though neither have really had any real experience playing OLB)

A guy I’m sort of curious about is Ahmad Brooks from SF. He had 7 sacks this year and has the size to hold up.

by ary201 on Feb 1, 2012 4:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Take a look at what's out there

There may be a decent market for a guy like Spencer, because true 3-4 OLBs out there are total JAGs. People want to call Spencer a JAG, look at what’s out there outside of Mario Williams. An OLD Clark Haggans, Barrett Johnson, Kirk Morrison Erik Walden, Gary Guyton, Tavares Gooden…

by ary201 on Feb 1, 2012 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Spencer com[pares favorably with Ahmad Brooks..they are probrably both in the same boat this year...

team looking to get better at that position but knowing what it has in who is already there…..if they don’t go for outrageous contracts they will both more than likely stay put…

Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home

by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 2, 2012 1:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Both are important, it's not like Spencer doesn't rush the passer.

He’s good for about 6 sacks a year and many more rushs and QB knock downs.

The only prefect science is hindsight............Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Feb 1, 2012 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Which is ok, and definitely not great

This topic gets boiled down to simple either/or too much. It’s not Ingram or Spencer. The defense has the potential to be better with either player, both players, or neither. It’s a question of resources and using them wisely.

I think Spencer and the draft are two different situations. They should set a price for what Spencer is worth to the team and stick to it. They should grade pass rushers in the draft and stick to their board and let it shake out. If Spencer gets a better deal and walks, so be it. If none of the OLB pass rushers fall to us in the draft, so be it. Hopefully we got a difference-making DB instead. and hopefully that money we saved on Spencer gets spent on a productive FA.

by ary201 on Feb 1, 2012 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes

I would say sacks are more important. But a number of factors inform sack numbers, not just individual pass rushing skill.

by ary201 on Feb 1, 2012 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Perhaps with better CB's, the QB has to wait a second more...

and that could translate into more sacks for Spencer. I don’t know, I’m just sayin.

by TheCowboyFan on Feb 1, 2012 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

That could certainly be the case.

I just wish we had another guy that is a big time threat as a pass rusher. Maybe I’m expecting too much.

by BigDumbFace on Feb 1, 2012 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

He'll never be D Ware, that's why he's so reviled by some.

I’m not opposed to drafting another OLB to improve the rush, but be careful prematruely burying Spence, we could do a lot worse. We haven’t as yet replaced Canty at DE.

Wish you were here and comfortably numb.

by pfloyd1 on Feb 1, 2012 11:07 PM CST up reply actions  

the dancing bear was alright for a couple of years there at less than half the money that Canty walked for...

but when he got bad he got bad in a hurry……

Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home

by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 2, 2012 1:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes and no bdf

It depends on the scheme and the side if the line also on the player personal. Now with a guy like ware rushing the passer on the opposite olb isn’t as important as it would be with just another good olb opposite Spencer. With ware on the field teams plan on him being the rusher and that’s fine what side do you run on the rushing side or the Contain side. Spencer is used the way he is cause ware is on the roster on Sunday. Take ware out of the game and it becomes alittle more of an issue but I’m still inclined to say without ware Spencer’s production in the rushing department would look alot better. Cause he would be asked to fill a diffrent roll. So you would have to situation it before you can get a true yes or no.

by Sado44 on Feb 1, 2012 5:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Spencer is not good enough

simple as that. PFF said he rushed the Passer 401 times and Ware 471 times this year. Ellis playing same position got more sacks and more pressure. Really sucks when we want Ellis type production after all the years of saying HE did not do enough

by burmafrd1944 on Feb 1, 2012 7:32 PM CST up reply actions  

He's plenty good enough...

Ellis was a 4-3 defensive end and everyone knew it… when we switched to the 3-4 he hated it. Even though he did well we weren’t going to keep him anyway. He was not as effective against the run never getting more then 40 tackles. When switched his first year he got 25 tackles and 4.5 sacks… 2nd year he blew it out … with 12.5 sack but still only had 24 tackles…. Spencer gets 60 tackles a year to go along with the 6 sacks. That’s 40 times that some running back is running around in our backfield or for that matter some QB.

RexP

by Rex Pfister on Feb 1, 2012 8:18 PM CST up reply actions  

This teams defense wasn't good enough

This teams pass rush wasn’t good enough, in the 3-4 that starts with the OLBs, and we know Ware is more than good enough. That points directly at Spencer.
The Definisive line’s job in this defense is to stop the run and occuply blockers, then rush the passer. Spencer was never double teamed, so you can’t blame the DE for his lack of pass rush.
If Spencer was good enough, the pass rush would be good enough.

by just4fun on Feb 2, 2012 3:12 AM CST up reply actions  

wow! ok we get it YOU HATE Spencer!

Great now talk about something else! Good grief!

"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!

by mho on Feb 3, 2012 3:10 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Your also talking about pff

His first read is always run unlike when ware rushes it usually pass first. Its how you structure your olb. He is way way above average in the run game and the screen game and plays contain extremely well. There is a reason most schemes don’t ask for both olb to rush first its leads to huge gains on the ground. Last thing a 3-4 team needs is for the running game to get moving. That means the defense has no control of the came anymore. 4-3 teams can handle lossing ground in the run game better than a 3-4. If you understood the 3-4 system then you would not be asking for your best TFL guy to be replaced with a pass rusher.

by Sado44 on Feb 1, 2012 9:45 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

If you think he is part of the problem you dont know squat about 3-4 defense.

Pass rush was good enough strong side backers don’t get sacks like weak side backers. Qbs can throw away before they get there I recall 3 int. Grounding calls with Spencer having his hands on the qb so that puts him at 9 sacks come on man. Olb is not where the 3-4 starts. First off its a blitz scheme ilb are your best blitz from 3-4 set but we can’t cause we have none fast enough. Spencer is in top 5 solb and top 5 in TFL get it right man. Learn the game before you spout off like you do.

by Sado44 on Feb 2, 2012 5:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Spencer has been a dissappointment

The opinions on Spencer sound too much like the other players that have been grossly over-valued on this team. It’s what lead Jerry to the many bad re-signing deals. Including the four this year (Ratliff, Sensabaugh, Spears and Scandrick). Scandrick is very very average, not bad, but not a good #2, Sensabaugh is ok, but no one wanted him last season, so why resign him, ditto for Spears. Ratliff is good, not great, but re-signing him until he’s 37 was a real head scratcher.

by just4fun on Feb 2, 2012 2:21 AM CST up reply actions  

When Spencer

is compared to his peer group of 12 SOLBs he is first in tackles, tied for 1st in forced fumbles tied for first in tackles for loss, tied for 2nd in QB hits and tied for 5th in sacks. Contrast that with the CBs rating of 40th for Jenkins, 82nd for Ball, 83 rd for Scandrick, and 97th for Newman and you can easily see where the real problem lies. The coverage has to at least be average for rushers to do their job and the secondary was nowhere near average.

by jevans1729 on Feb 2, 2012 8:18 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

when you look at Spencer compared to his peers resigning him would seem to be a no brainer....

however when you think of how that money would be better spent…..

the draft is deep in OLB for a 3-4 this year….do you use the money to sign a high priced player or save the dough and draft someone who could possibly replace their output…..the only reason to pay upon spencer would be a familiarity issue…you know what you have….

The draft is deep in a position that FA is weak in this year let someone else overpay for a postion that you can easily replace….

Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home

by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 2, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Do replace a known for a unknown

When there are so many unknowns already on defense. No way you do.

by Sado44 on Feb 2, 2012 5:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

You initially fix your unknown

Fix the secondary then work on bringing in a guy who could replace him but keep him till you do.

by Sado44 on Feb 2, 2012 5:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I guess you don't what you have till it's gone, and the grass is always greener on the other side.Huh

I say if he’s a reasonable signing we do our best to keep him, and focus on the backfield and Oline Dline.

by DCB* on Feb 3, 2012 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

agreed...

i think was was my devils advocate posting……trying to write a post that says exactly what you said first…..

Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home

by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 3, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

It is hard to rate players.

Bennett graded higher than Witten and Phillips. But if it is third and 6 and I need a first down my preferrence would be Witten , Phillips then Bennett. No way Bennett is a better TE than Witten.

by oldboysfan on Feb 1, 2012 2:01 PM CST reply actions  

depends on what you ask him to do...

as an all around threat everydown player Witten without a doubt is the better of the two and a virtual hall of fame lock…..but when it comes to run blocking DE’s coming off the edge one on one Bennett has shown a much higher ability to do that….he has a use..to constantly bemoan the fact of whare he was drafted is useless…the fact is he is a part of this team and an assett to it…we should try to resign him becuz the role he plays in it is going to very difficult to replace…

Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home

by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 1, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Problem with grades like this, I agree

But it gives you a good baseline for seeing if a guy gives you something. To go by what we read forums and boards, Bennett is one of the worst players in the NFL. These numbers give you a hint that he’s actually a good player.

Problem is that some guys can find a play or two that has a greater impact on the actual game at hand. Say Witten gets blown up a few times while run blocking and doesn’t get separation for a half. He’ll grade out bad for that game. But say he makes a clutch catch on 4th down to give the team a chance to win at the end. In the books it will go down as a good catch, but in the game it could mean everything.

by ary201 on Feb 1, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Witten didn't go en route as often as he should have.

You watched the games, how many times in the first half did we say “get Witten involved,” explains the low grade.

by Omar Little on Feb 1, 2012 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

but Witten's grade not based on raw numbers but what he's expected to do on a given play

In 2011, he simply wasn’t as dynamic as he has been in the past. What I’m hoping (desperately) is that this isn’t evidence of the big decline.

by rabblerousr on Feb 1, 2012 6:58 PM CST up reply actions  

He also was not in route anywhere often enough.

Look, guys have bad plays. It happens, Jason Peters has made Ware his bitch in the past, does that mean that Ware’s a bad player? Of course not. His targets were as high as anyones, but his catch percentage was pretty weak. Given his catch percentage and his connection with Romo in the past I’m going to write that off as an anomaly.

by Omar Little on Feb 2, 2012 12:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Jenkin and Scandrick

may appear to be good players because Newman and Walker played so poorly.

by oldboysfan on Feb 1, 2012 2:04 PM CST reply actions  

Jenkins and Scandrick are definitely our best defensive backs

Everyone else like I said before is either very average or garbage.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 1, 2012 2:07 PM CST up reply actions  

am excited about what this new secondary coach can do...

for whatever reason our secondary has been in decline since Campo took over in 2008 and it wasn’t just the players….

Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home

by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 1, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

I like Campo as a person, Hate him as a coach so C-YA !!!

the DB’s will be better. I was sick of so much pre-snap hand signals; they should ALL be ready a sec or 2 before the snap, not waving to a Safety…. also hate the turn & run, you need to see if a QB’s even looking your way. Scandrick is ok, but def not worth his new contract, maybe because they Knew Newman was gone this off-season. Spencer’s issues are coach-able, he just sucks @ contain. ILB’s suck w/ out Lee, I pray for Carter to be almost as good. same DL is fine (considering other needs). OG / C has to improve, SIGNIFICANTLY or Romo is dead. I don’t understand everyone’s love w/ Kosier, IMHO he sucks too

by ImAPokesFan on Feb 1, 2012 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

maybe campo had more to work with then we have been led to believe.....

bad coaching can ruin a good player……

Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home

by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 2, 2012 12:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Hell I'd settle for average from the corners

Walker, Ball, Newman? Not an average corner there.

by Omar Little on Feb 1, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd say Jenkins and Scandrick are about the same

slightly above average…if it could be done, I’d replace every other secondary player

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 1, 2012 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Jenkins and Scandrick came up together

Scandrick got the initial start I think and then lost it, Jenkins has always been the better cover corner. If you remember in 2010 the zebras targeted him early and often and it seemed that it killed his agressiveness. His agressiveness was back this year. I’ve never been a fan of Scandrick.

by 50yrcowboy on Feb 1, 2012 11:10 PM CST up reply actions  

your aggressiveness would be killed to if you wer being flagged everytime you even looked at a WR....

yes his play trailed off but some of the penalties called against him were horrendous that year…..

Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home

by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 2, 2012 1:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Thank you!

I remember giong back and watching some of the “PI” calls. Completely ridiculous calls on a lot of them

by mahuebel on Feb 2, 2012 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

PI is so ticky tack anymore....

you watch a team like Baltimore and their corners are playing tight coverage on the WR’s..almost never get called for a PI unless its blatant…..you see ours doing the same thing and they breathe on the WR and its a flag….wish the league would get consistent….

Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home

by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 2, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions  

As soon as our boys become consistent

sb contenders they’ll start getting calls their way.

"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22

"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy

by DarkKnight88 on Feb 2, 2012 4:33 PM CST up reply actions  

average is being a little too nice

Newman and Ball are garbage.

Jenkins I’n not sure about. He had a godawful 2010. This year, he played gutsy football, and seemed to be back at his great 2009 level, but he missed a lot of time and its also hard to grade a decent cb when the man opposite him is targeted as heavily as newman was towards the end of the year. Looking at his career from 2008-2011 so far, I see some rather inconsistent results, thought he potential is clearly there.

Scandrick I think is around league average. Its really hard to play the slot. Lets remember that Newman used to play the slot, I don’t think that happened much this year but I may be wrong.

by foyesboys on Feb 1, 2012 5:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Why is it “expected” that the cowboys do not resign Bennett? Just because they haven’t already done so?

by DavidLaFleur on Feb 1, 2012 2:18 PM CST reply actions  

He stated he's going to test the market.

The only prefect science is hindsight............Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Feb 1, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh yeah now i remember :0
I’m still holding out hope that he will be a cowboy next year.

by DavidLaFleur on Feb 1, 2012 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I think I'd like that as well.

If only to keep them from drafting another TE in the second round like they’re totally going to.

by BigDumbFace on Feb 1, 2012 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

No way man, you’re talking to David LaFleur. Time to take a TE in the 1st round!

check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night

by AustonianAggie on Feb 1, 2012 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

almos tthe whole team graded negative in 2008, that's ugly

and who’s tra battle? i don’t even remember that fella, he played S or what?

by ratware on Feb 1, 2012 3:23 PM CST reply actions  

That sounds right about Battle being a S. Not sure though.

What about Jeremy Clark? That was just last year and I don’t remember that guy.

by BigDumbFace on Feb 1, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I believe we picked him up

several games into the season.
He was mostly on special teams, and only on the team due to injury I believe…

by mahuebel on Feb 2, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Roy E Williams really sucks

god, why couldn’t we at least get Boldin or Holmes
to this day, I cannot go through a whole day without thinking about trading our 1st round pick for that bum
I just imagine the what if, what if we had Clay Matthews, what if we had Michael Oher, what if we had Percy Harvin, what if we had Vontae Davis

I don’t think I will ever get over that

"With the 14th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.........The Dallas Cowboys select..............Melvin Ingram DE South Carolina"

My card has been sent in

by Archie Barberio on Feb 1, 2012 3:24 PM CST reply actions  

That along with giving up two firsts for Joey Galloway

we by far and away the worst personnel decisions Jerry ever made.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 1, 2012 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

The Galloway trade was good for what the Cowboys needed at the time

The results were not.

In Galloway’s first 4 seasons he had 1000 yards receiving save for 1 (missed it by 13 yards) and averaged 65 receptions and 9 TDs. He had an injury-shortened season in 1999 and was traded to the Cowboys for the 2000 season. As we all know, he got injured the first game of the season, and Troy Aikman played his last game in the 2000 season. After playing for the dregs that passed for QBs after Aikman left for 3 more years, Galloway went to Tampa Bay and played 5 seasons (3 1000 yard seasons), while having his best season in 2005 with 83 receptions, 1287 yards and 10 TDs.

Galloway was not a bad WR by any stretch. The Cowboys paid a lot to get him, but with Michael Irvin out, the Cowboys desperately needed help. In hindsight, the Cowboys didn’t get the production they wanted from him, but Galloway was more than capable of producing had he been paired with a quality QB.

You also have to remember that Aikman retired far earlier than most QBs with his talent. Had the concussion issues not forced him to retire, he could have easily played another 3-4 years. The Cowboys got unlucky with injuries, but that is why the draft (or free agency) is never a sure thing.

I’ll give you another example. I’m a big FSU fan, and Andre Wadsworth was a beast of DE coming out of college the same year that Randy Moss did. He had size, he had super quickness, he was ultra-productive, and he was a quality person. You couldn’t ask for anything more from a high first round pick. He went in the top-4 to the Cardinals. However, he injured his knees and was out of the league in a couple of years. Was he a good pick? At the time … he11 yeah. Was his GM stupid for picking him? He11 no. They just got unlucky.

we by far and away the worst personnel decisions Jerry ever made.

No … Jerry needed to get a proven playmaker for Aikman. Once Aikman went down, it really didn’t matter if the Cowboys had those 1st round picks or not … the Cowboy’s fortunes were sunk until they were able to find their next great QB.

by Conn Cowboy on Feb 1, 2012 4:27 PM CST up reply actions  

BS, Galloway was definitely not worth two first rd picks

Actually, I can’t think of any receivers that are outside a couple HOF receivers

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 1, 2012 5:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Not sure if you were a Cowboys fan then

but at that time, the Cowboys championship window was closing, and after losing Irvin, they desparately needed a WR.

If they trade goes well, you lose a couple bottom of the 1st round picks. Sure you can get some good players (and you can also get guys who are starters but are average players), but you may have to wait 2-3 years before them become really good. By that time, it is too late because Emmitt and Aikman only had a couple years left when the trade was made. Cowboys mortgaged their future to get Galloway, but there wasn’t going to be any future after Aikman and Emmitt left anyway.

You can fault fate for how the trade ultimately turned out, but Jerry made the right move to get Galloway. If he didn’t, people would have been up in arms over why we didn’t get a quality receiver for Aikman.

by Conn Cowboy on Feb 1, 2012 8:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll be honest

I didn’t hate that trade until Aikman received his kill shots in the 2000 season and then going into the 2001 draft realizing we had no chance at Drew Brees.

The trade was defensible at the time Jerry made it, in hindsight it blew up in his face.

I’m more pissed off he parlayed the 2009 draft on Roy Williams and improved special teams play.

"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."

by Rohpuri on Feb 1, 2012 10:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah I can't blame him...

I mean he wanted to milk another ring about of the best QB he’s going to have for another thirty years or so. Understandable move at the time, we know now that rarely works out in the NFL. Yes, though…the Roy Williams trade was way worse. I remember kinda liking it at the time, because I loved Roy Williams in college but damn…that was awful. The “special teams draft” wouldn’t have bothered me anywhere near as much if they had actually improved the special teams.

by Omar Little on Feb 2, 2012 12:54 AM CST up reply actions  

I blame him.

Drafting Shante Carver’s and Kavika Pittman’s and Duane Goodrisch’s had taken it’s toll on the defense. The offense wasn’t even close to the machine it had been. The 01 draft we would have had the 9th pick. The previous draft Seattle took Shaun Alexander.

Jerry won’t try tearing down and rebuilding. Instead he tries retooling and staying mediocre or bad. He doesn’t know how to retool. He has no foresight. Never did. He had nothing after Troy. Nothing after irvin. Nothing after Emmitt. Eh I could do this for ever.

Jerry is the end all in Dallas.

by football mensa on Feb 3, 2012 9:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree that we got really unlucky with that trade

but…2 first rounders is too much. That was back when wrs were all the rage and going in the first constantly and most of those guys ended up being busts, so we weren’t the only team guilty of overvaluing wr talent at that point.

Galloway should’ve been a good player for us. And you can see the logic with Aikman still on the team. Still, 2 firsts for any non-qb or elite top 3 at his position player is a bad trade imo.

by foyesboys on Feb 1, 2012 5:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Those first round picks were late teens or so.......

And no general manager in their right mind would trade two first rounders for a wide receiver. Galloway was a good player, though. The Roy Williams deal was worse, they got nothing for a first and a third. Jerry is a great owner and a LOUSY GM.

by since '66 on Feb 1, 2012 11:23 PM CST up reply actions  

It was bad due to Jerry's mistaken idea that the cowboys were 1-2 players away from

a playoff team. Let’s just hope the Giants run hasn’t inspired him into that same kind of thinking this offseason. This team needs a lot of help.

by just4fun on Feb 2, 2012 12:24 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah easily

"With the 14th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.........The Dallas Cowboys select..............Melvin Ingram DE South Carolina"

My card has been sent in

by Archie Barberio on Feb 1, 2012 7:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Let it go ....
I just imagine the what if, what if we had Clay Matthews, what if we had Michael Oher, what if we had Percy Harvin, what if we had Vontae Davis

I still think about what the Cowboys fortunes would have been had we picked Randy Moss instead of Greg Ellis. I’m sure that we would have had another couple of Super Bowl appearances with Randy opposite Irvin and Aikman throwing the ball. Although the triplets were at the tail end of their careers, Moss would have super-charged that offense. Teams wouldn’t have been able to stack the box against Emmitt. Irvin would have got 1-on-1 coverage. Defenses would have been afraid to blitz (slow-footed) Aikman because of the threat Moss posed.

That being said, the past is in the past. The draft is always full of hits and misses. The #3 pick in the 2009 draft was DE Tyson Jackson, who has had 2 sacks in not quite 3 full seasons. The #11 pick in the 2009 draft was DE Aaron Maybin, who has had 6 sacks in not quite 3 full seasons (all of them last year with the Jets). The #16 pick was DE/OLB Larry English, who has 7 sacks in about 2 seasons worth of games. The #18 pick was DE Robert Ayers, who has 4.5 sacks in abot 3 seasons of games. The only lineman that did well in that draft, besides Clay, was Brian Orakpo. Would the Cowboys have picked one of the winners? Maybe, but there are still a lot of average players that got picked in the 1st round of that draft.

by Conn Cowboy on Feb 1, 2012 4:45 PM CST up reply actions  

just go and look at the players we missed on because we traded for Roy Williams

Harvin- perfect slot WR with return ability, something we havent had in a long time
Oher- a solid offensive lineman
Davis- a real good CB
Matthews- would be a pass rusher for us and maybe that would have allowed Spencer to do what he does best against the run

that 2009 draft was a complete failure, we ended up with 2 players with any sort of value
Victor Butler and John Phillips
we had like 12 picks and thats what we ended up with

it may be the worst draft class I have ever seen in my life as a Cowboys fan

"With the 14th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.........The Dallas Cowboys select..............Melvin Ingram DE South Carolina"

My card has been sent in

by Archie Barberio on Feb 1, 2012 7:51 PM CST up reply actions  

We probably wouldn't have picked

Matthews even if we had he pick. Spencer was just drafted, and people were pretty high on him at the time.

by Conn Cowboy on Feb 1, 2012 8:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't forget, we could've had Jeremy Maclin or Hakeem Nicks

"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."

by Rohpuri on Feb 1, 2012 11:47 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

This I am going to okay the hindsight...

Because it’s worth it to get them out of the division!

by Omar Little on Feb 2, 2012 12:57 AM CST up reply actions  

My problem with the hindsight game in this case is...

There’s also a lot of other players that they wouldn’t have. If they had Michael Oher, probably no Tyron Smith, Dez Bryant, and maybe Murray. They were one of the few teams to have a first round grade on Sean Lee in 2010 so he probably would have been the first round pick. The 2009 draft sucked, yeah, and? Move on from it, the past two draft classes have several players that were all excited about. Hopefully this next draft class we’ll get three or four more.

by Omar Little on Feb 2, 2012 12:56 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

You want Percy Harvin?

The Vikings don’t. He randomly misses games at any time with no warning for migraines. One time in training camp a year ago they had to call a ambulance to take him to the hospital after he collapsed on the field due to one.

by Rena on Feb 1, 2012 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

yes, I would want Harvin over Roy Williams

I would want any first round player that year over Roy Williams
Roy is gone and he didn’t do anything here

"With the 14th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.........The Dallas Cowboys select..............Melvin Ingram DE South Carolina"

My card has been sent in

by Archie Barberio on Feb 1, 2012 7:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Percy Harvin gives our return game a legit home run threat

He’s a jack of all trades player:
1) Play a little 3rd dowb scatt RB
2) Kick Returner
3) Punt Returner
4) Slot WR

If he can be had for a modest $ I’d do it.

"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."

by Rohpuri on Feb 1, 2012 11:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Ehhh

You’re taking things too far in that draft we saw:

Aaron Curry, Tyson Jackson, DHB, Mark Sanchez, Jason Smith, Piera Jerry, Aaron Maybin, Larry English, and some other pretty mediocre to average players.

While Roy Williams sucked and cost a lot of money, there’s a lot of garbage in that first round.

by Omar Little on Feb 2, 2012 1:05 AM CST up reply actions  

i actually wish we had traded with Seattle for Aaron Curry when they were tossing him out as trade bait...

for what the Raiders paid for him it would have been worth it….Orie Lemon or Aaron Curry as your MLB depth…yes he had problems in coverage but he couldn’t be worse than Brooking or James at this point in their careers…..not only that but possibly good insurance just in case Bruce Carter doesn’t pan out as a starter….

Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home

by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 2, 2012 1:09 AM CST up reply actions  

Its important to remember

that the difference between a -3 and +3 grade by PFF isn’t very significant. Spears’ -5.5 grade is not good, but its not terrible either. Looking at our DL, they all seem like average players. Add in a secondary with two awful players in Newman and Ball (a guy who saw a large number of snaps due to injuries), and its fairly evident where our problems lie. 2 great players in Ware and Lee and a couple solid role players in Spencer, some of the situational DL players, Jenkins and Scandrick do not make a defense.

by foyesboys on Feb 1, 2012 5:53 PM CST reply actions  

True, buuuuutt...

when we see someone like J.J. Watt or Justin Smith grading out at a +30 or so, it does speak to the wide gap between the elite 3-4 teams and Dallas’ comparatively moribund front seven.

by rabblerousr on Feb 1, 2012 7:02 PM CST up reply actions  

oh I agree

my point is just that these guys are all around average, even Spears, though he had somewhat of a down year.

And while I agree with what you said, one dominant DE pass rusher would instantly make this DL much more formidable. I know I keep harping on Campbell and its likely nothing but a pipe dream, but Campbell, Ratliff and Hatcher in pass rushing situations would be really nice.

Our DL is full of role players. Its not the worst problem to have when you think about it, but we need to find a way to upgrade a position on the line, somehow.

by foyesboys on Feb 1, 2012 8:08 PM CST up reply actions  

A nose tackle seems to be the most obvious solution

Like a great big fat ass. Be nice, but I’m unsure Poe’s the guy this year.

by Omar Little on Feb 2, 2012 1:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Lissemore is showing very good potential....

he’s growing into his position and getting acclimated to the big boys…he was compared to Jay when he was drafted and it took JRat a couple of years to break out into a starting role…..Lissemore, Hatcher, Ratliff, Josh Brent is a good young Dline that has a lot of potential to improve….Spears and Coleman are there to hold the fort while they mature….not saying we couldn’t get better in at least one of those positions but the draft this year doesn’t have the depth that last years offered at that position…..

DB’s and OLB’s with an interior lineman should probrably be the biggest additions from this draft in whatever order they get filled…

Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home

by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 2, 2012 1:14 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd like to see

a comparison chart of just our DL vs other 34 Dlinemen

by mahuebel on Feb 2, 2012 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

and remember, PFF is nuts about penalties

they put WAY too much emphasis on penalties that mean nothing.

If a lineman is a +3 for the game and gets one offsides; does not matter if the offsides meant nothing, his grade goes down to -3.

by burmafrd1944 on Feb 1, 2012 7:36 PM CST reply actions  

They are huge.

Offsides is five yards, imagine an offsides on 3rd and 6? It’s not a -6 swing like you suggest. Spencer had what? Ten yards of penalties against the Giants? He only got -1.9. False starts? Sets a team back five yards, a hold? Ten yards, may as well be a sack. Penalties matter bro.

by Omar Little on Feb 2, 2012 1:15 AM CST up reply actions  

SOME penalties matter

the problem with PFF is that they rate ALL penalties equally

If you think that is not a bad way to look at it then you need to read some books

by burmafrd1944 on Feb 2, 2012 5:51 AM CST up reply actions  

You realize that it's largely random when players have penalties right?

I can’t believe that a Cowboys fan of all people is saying that penalties don’t matter…after the problems that this team’s had with penalties? Do you think a player can help when they false start or jump offsides?

by Omar Little on Feb 2, 2012 11:31 AM CST up reply actions  

if we really want

to have a good defense then let’s draft a true NT. The 3-4 is built around a true NT. Steelers,Ravens etc. Both have excellent NT’s. We have not had a true NT since fergusion.
Amazing how much better our lb’s will be with a true NT. Stop fooling around and draft poe at 14.

by oneforthethumb on Feb 1, 2012 9:28 PM CST reply actions  

I would be on board w/ Poe

especially if the team is considering moving ratliff to de

"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22

"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy

by DarkKnight88 on Feb 1, 2012 9:35 PM CST reply actions  

Unless I missed a comment no one

Is pointing out the elephant in the room from this very well put together article…Jerry is horrible GM who has consistently failed to construct teams with the talent to compete at a high level. Pick any year and you have multiple instances of bad draft picks and worthless free agents littering the roster.

by jerry_jones_killed_our_cowboys on Feb 1, 2012 10:01 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

My observations

1) To all the people who called for Tony’ head saying we can with Kitna, NO YOU CAN’T! I don’t want to hear it. When Tony played in 2010, the team was starting to quit on Wade, but remained competitive in all the games. When Tony went down, Kitna QB’d the team to back to back embarrasing losses (Jags and Pack). Kitna also single handedly cost us the Cardinals game with 2 first half pick sixes. I don’t care if his record was 4-5 in Romo’s absence, he had the bennefit of playing after the coaching change and the rest of the team playing for their jobs after Wade getting the boot.

2) If you believe McGee can serve as QB #2, I want what you smoke.

3) Jenkins was a rookie in 2008, it was expected he’d struggle. He made the Pro-Bowl in 2009. He struggled in 2010 because he was injured and trying to make up for horrible play at FS. I don’t recall seeing his name on the 2011 list.

4) Phil Costa got WORSE his second yr. I’ll be shocked if he’s starting at C next season.

5) Fine, Fine, Fine, Anthony Spencer isn’t as bad as a lot of us believe him to be. I take this to mean, that unless he walks in FA, Dallas will not use a 1st or 2nd on Spencer’s replacement.

6) Doug Free shouldn’t be on this list come next season, if he is, I might try and trade him for a pick.

7) Not surprised Roy E Williama wasn’t cut after 2009, Jerry didn’t want to admit he crapped the bed just yet. By November 2010, that trade flat out blew up in his face with the way the team bottomed out in Green Bay.

8) Quinton Coples in the 1st rd, Jared Crick in the 2nd rd or Kendall Reyes in the 3rd Rd is strong possibility. If you don’t believe me, see Marcus Spears above.

9) There will be several new starters at OL and DB. Don’t rule out a G/C in the first rd, and don’t rule out a Safety either.

"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."

by Rohpuri on Feb 1, 2012 10:05 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

We can speculate all we want. FA will answer many of these questions.

We must be active, but smart in FA. Whom we sign when it starts will set the tone for the draft.

Wish you were here and comfortably numb.

by pfloyd1 on Feb 1, 2012 11:16 PM CST reply actions  

take DeCastro under that scenario & never look back

"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."

by Rohpuri on Feb 2, 2012 12:59 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

To me

it’s probably easier to sign Nicks. Fitzpatrick or Jenkins are going fall to us at #14 and we should run to the podium to get either one. (If they are clean) The way I see it at least there is some hope for the OL. There is not a glimmer of hope in that secondary right now.

by jevans1729 on Feb 2, 2012 8:33 AM CST up reply actions  

you can fins

"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."

by Rohpuri on Feb 2, 2012 12:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

damnit Iphone

You can find good DBs in the second and 3rd rd.

Chase Minnifield is every bit as talented as Kirkpatrick and Jenkins; he’s got the height speed; coverage skill; ball skills; and can tackle too.

"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."

by Rohpuri on Feb 2, 2012 12:51 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Agreed.

Jenkins, Gilmore, and maybe even Dennard may fall to the 2nd and would improve the secondary. Flemming in the 4th or so is another good option. Shaun Prater and Leonard Johnson are two other good options.

by Omar Little on Feb 2, 2012 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

A bad senior bowl won't cause me to pass up a former first in the second...

It’ll take more than that, now I’m not saying he’s worth the pick, but a bad Senior Bowl alone won’t cause me to stay this far away from him. Now if he looks not elite in workouts too? Yeah that’ll do the trick. Bad senior bowl and workouts drop a guy for me.

by Omar Little on Feb 3, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

get the samsung...you can talk into it instead of having to type.....

least thats what the commercial shows….

Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home

by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 2, 2012 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I want to build this team from the Trenches out. That's where it starts.

We need solid Ol and DL to be effective.

Drfat a CB in the first only if he is clearly the BPA………

Wish you were here and comfortably numb.

by pfloyd1 on Feb 1, 2012 11:21 PM CST reply actions  

I hope everyone realizes that this sites that do so called statistical analysis is

really just someone elses opinion. It’s not necessarilly fact. PFF grades each player on each play, but it’s their opinion of how good the player did each play. It’s not factual information.

by just4fun on Feb 2, 2012 12:22 AM CST reply actions  

Resign – Spencer, Robinson, and Bennett (only if at a reasonable prices) Fiammetta, and I think you gotta bring back Abe Elam maybe on another one year contract.
Free agency – Carl Nicks or Ben Grubb (not only makes the oline better but will help the transition of switching tyron to lt) Terrell Thomas, and Casey Hampton should get released from pittsburgh would love to bring him in on a year contract would have limited snaps but anything to help push the pocket and move rat to de should do wonders.
Draft – 1) Jenkins, 2) Cordy Glenn (love his versatility to play interior or right tackle just not sure he makes it out of the first)

by gator28 on Feb 2, 2012 12:25 AM CST reply actions  

Nice article...tells me the organization does its homework when making its decision...

…I see a clear correlation between poor performance and team cuts. The only caveat is “bad” contracts have kept some bad players on the team. I’m sure every team has these bad contracts, but it add fuel to the fire that we try to avoid high priced free agents (Carl Nicks) and improve through the draft (especially with the rookie wage scale).

Costa’s bad number speaks volumes to me…how did Kowalski grade out?…I wonder if the Boys will take a flyer on Wells or Myers? Centers (even great ones can be had for a lower price tag)…I’m thinking we target a veteran Center.

by CaliFanInTx on Feb 2, 2012 4:44 AM CST reply actions  

if they feel the need to upgrade at center I would love for them to draft Ben Jones out of Georgia...

would have been the top rated center this year if Konz had stayed in school….not as high on Konz due to him missing time each of the past 3 years due to injury…..that shows a reliable trned of unreliability….the FA market as far as centers goes is horrible this year due to age…most of them are well into their 30’s…If you going to go FA go young…..

Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home

by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 2, 2012 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I have no problem drafting a C...but he'll still be a rookie...it'd be nice to have a good veterran stop gap until the kid gets up to speed.

True that the better available C this offseason are in their 30’s, but the position comes cheaper than G (which is strange to me) and C’s have a good history of being able to play into their mid to late 30’s…if we could get one o f the better veteran C’s for say 3-4 mil per…it makes a lot of sense…

This article says it all for me…

http://www.cowboysnation.com/2012/01/dallas-biggest-need-sits-front-and.html

by CaliFanInTx on Feb 2, 2012 4:55 PM CST up reply actions  

While I appreciate the post, given the slow news (for Cowboys)

you only need to look at the final record to show the effectiveness of the moves Jerry has made. If you want to look further than that, you’d have to start with the big games. It really doesn’t matter what you did against St. Louis and Seattle. It matters what you did against playoff teams, esp. in your own division. We were 0-4 against the two best teams in our division. I left out Washington because their qb is Rex Grossman, and probably won’t ever start again anywhere. Our defense was routed by and large in those games (in 3 out of 4 games). So just based on those games you need better players on defense. Because those same players sucked just as bad with a different DC. So, outside of Ratliff, Ware and Lee every other position needs to improve. Either by player development (like Carter) or a new player.
You can try to candy coat it anyway you want. The pass defense was not nearly good enough. The pass rush was good at the begining of the year but was bad when it counted.
The interior line needs improvement.
But if Jerry has learned his lesson from the late 90s. The replacements need to be young, not a 30+ yo player that will most likely get worse every year of his contract. Now if you want to sign a 1-2 year stop gap to protect yourself that’s fine. But the preference should be for young players.

by just4fun on Feb 2, 2012 4:50 AM CST reply actions  

Anybody else entertain the notion that its possible with all their offield issues....

that both Kirkpatrick and Jenkins fall to us?

if we drafted both of them this draft would anybody have an issue with spending two high picks on arguably two of the 3 highest rated corners in this draft?

Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home

by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 2, 2012 12:02 PM CST reply actions  

not going to happen

"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."

by Rohpuri on Feb 2, 2012 12:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Even if it did

Would you really like their two best picks spent on players at the same position and on two players with character concerns? I mean I’d be fine with either of them, but there’s other needs…

by Omar Little on Feb 2, 2012 1:16 PM CST up reply actions  

IF

We somehow got both Dre and Jenkins I’d put Dre at FS. He is a solid tackler with above average cover skills and the height to shut down TEs like Gronk. Plus I think with us now having a good secondary coach he might be ready day one! What’s your opinion?

"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!

by mho on Feb 3, 2012 3:18 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

if they clear character wise I'm all for your idea...

with his size he’d be the perfect FS….

Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home

by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 3, 2012 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

right.

And with some S&C training he could pack a punch.

"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!

by mho on Feb 3, 2012 10:00 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

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