Dallas Cowboys Draft: Scouting The Scouts, 2012 Edition
Last year, in early February, I thought it might be useful to subject the seemingly endless litany of draft "experts" to a little of their own medicine--to grade the graders, so to speak. I wanted to weed out as many of the extraneous voices as possible, leaving only the guys who have a real eye for talent, and whose player reports accord most closely with those of NFL scouts. As my evaluations were met with approval, I thought I'd update my evaluation, based on the scouting landscape's changing topography.
Ol' Rabble's 2012 edition of Scouting the Scouts:
Camp Bodies:
Draft Breakdown
Draft Daddy
Draft Season
Draft Site
The Football Expert
Football's Future
New Era Scouting
NFL Draft Dog
Walter Football
These guys--and a legion of others like them--are just like us: sports fans who know a little bit about college football, but a whole lot less than Chia Crack. Unlike us, they have draft websites, most of them packed with information--some of them are even somewhat professional looking. However, if you read through them, there seems to be a lot of material from sports information guides or links to more polished and professional scouting materials. If you look at their mock drafts, you'll notice that they are in surprising agreement. This suggests that they trade in popular opinion, which tends to bear little resemblance to what NFL teams think of players. These guys can be useful if you want to find some basic information on a specific player--but as soon as they switch from info to analysis, beware.
Priority Free Agent:
The Huddle Report merits its own category, as it stands alone among NFL Draft sites. THR's primary claim to fame is their own version of "scouting the scouts"; each year they compare all the various draftnik's "top 100" lists to the players actually taken and grade them accordingly, both by the year and over a five-year period. It's Huddle's assessments that first alerted me to the sustained excellence of the man who sits atop my ranking for the second consecutive year...
Seventh Rounders:
Draft Ace
Mocking the Draft
Great Blue North Draft
These sites function in much the way BTB does: as a clearinghouse for a group of writers to blog about the draft. If you can only choose one from this group, I'd suggest SB Nation's Mocking the Draft, helmed by the esteemed Dan Kadar, which tends to link to the very best information--often to the sites that I've included below. So, if you want to catch up on top-shelf draft info in a hurry, hit our draft-related sister site and enjoy Mocking Dan's fine work. Both Draft Ace and GBN Draft also offer worthy links in addition to player rankings and updated mocks. What they don't offer is much actual first-hand scouting, which is what keeps them from going in the higher rounds.
Sixth Rounder:
The guys at Drafttek, on the other hand, do a lot of scouting. They feature a cadre of team correspondents, and have various scouts grading their respective positions of expertise (BTB member Long Ball, an expert on Offensive line play, is their Cowboys correspondent). So, they benefit from specialization, both in team evaluations and positional rankings. What makes them singular, however, is a special proprietary feature they have developed: a cool online draft simulator, which readers can use to create mock draft simulations by changing a variety of inputs: accommodating trades, changing a given team's priorities, "locking out" a specific player by assigning him to a given team. It's very cool, and a lot of fun--and it's likely to show up in mocks here on BTB.
Fifth Rounders:
Mel Kiper (ESPN)
Rob Rang (CBS Sports and NFL Draft Countdown)
Scott Wright (Draft Countdown)
This category is reserved for self-made full-time draft analysts. These guys are principally journalists; none has ever worked for an NFL team. A couple of these gents have been in the game for a long time: since he joined ESPN in 1983, Kiper has been instrumental in making the draft a prime time event; Draft Countdown's Scott Wright has been scouting and evaluating players for almost twenty years; Rang has over a decade of player evaluation under his belt. Like professional scouts, each man spends hours evaluating tape and grading players; what separates them from the Gary Hortons of the world is the accuracy of their evaluations. None of these guys (Kiper in particular) has demonstrated that his assessments are significantly more accurate than those of the draftniks to whom I gave seventh-round grades. Wright and Rang, though better than Kiper, remain a cut below the guys further down this list.
Fourth Rounder:
McShay is a comparative newbie, but he trained under--and is the pretty-boy TV face for--respected former NFL scout Gary Horton (more on Horton below), so he earns higher marks for being one degree of separation removed from actual NFL war rooms. In addition, he has at least played the game, albeit as a Division III college 'baller (he was a backup quarterback at Richmond). McShay's takes on draftable players rarely seem singular or unique, which keeps him out of rounds 1-3, but they are more consistent and seem to accord more closely to those of NFL war rooms than the guys in the lower rounds. So, he sits alone, in round four.
Third Rounder:
Dan Shonka (Ourlads)
Before coming to Ourlads, Shonka was a scout for the Eagles, Redskins and Chiefs. Consequently, he and the rest of Ourlads' scouts operate according to NFL protocol in terms of the way they watch film and process information. So, what keeps Ourlads out of the second round? Historically, I haven't found their "independent conclusions" particularly persuasive. Also, their otherwise extensive guides often fail to include an unsettlingly high percentage of players who are drafted in the late rounds. So, while I admire the degree to which Ourlads stand by their evaluations, they swing and miss too often for my liking.
Second Rounders:
Gary Horton (ESPN/ Scouts, Inc)
Nolan Nawrocki (Pro Football Weekly)
Like Ourlads, Scouts, Inc. compiles and processes information as if they were an NFL scouting department. Scouts, Inc.'s head honcho, Horton, spent 10 years in the NFL as a scout with Tampa Bay and Cleveland. As a result, ESPN's player evaluations feature the expanded categories (including intangibles, positions specific skills, etc.) that we'd expect to find on pro scouting evaluations. Although he can't boast Horton's NFL credentials, Nawrocki's evaluations belong in the same conversation. Like Kiper, Nawrocki is primarily a journalist (he's an associate editor at Pro Football Weekly); unlike Kiper, he has a keen scouting eye; to my mind, PFW's annual Draft Guide is required reading every April.
The reason I have both of these men ranked higher than Shonka is because I find their evaluations to be both more thorough--their player profiles are extremely detailed--and more accurate. When I compare draft guides after the fact, these guys' top 100 player rankings tend to correlate pretty well to where players were drafted and their criticisms of players tend to underscore the deficiencies in their games that in fact proved to limit or derail their careers. That said, I don't find their work as convincing as that of the draft gurus upon whom I have bestowed first round grades.
First Rounders:
Mike Mayock (NFL Network)
Wes Bunting (National Football Post)
Every draft season, we see a lot of top-flight college seniors dropped in the rankings as soon as eligible juniors declared for the 2011 draft. Similarly, these more recent arrivals on the scouting scene have demonstrated more electrifying skill sets than their elders, and have pushed them down the list. Neither Mayock or Bunting have the pro scouting skins that Horton or Shonka can boast. But, perhaps because of this, their ability to think outside the NFL scouting box is far stronger. They tend to see different things in players and, as a result, I find their analysis to be keener and, when looking back at their grades several years after the fact, to cohere more closely to actual NFL production. As I build up information on draftable college players, I use our second and third-round NFL scouting types as sources to build my knowledge base, and then use these guys--the first rounders--to establish my conception of how players should be graded and where they should be slotted.
Blue-Chipper:
Goose Gosselin (Dallas Morning News)
Goose Gosselin, the Dallas Morning News' NFL beat writer, isn't a scout, nor does he pretend to be; he doesn't watch any tape, nor attend any pro days. But more than any other journalist, he has his ear to the keyhole of every team's war room door. Instead of evaluating talent, he makes lots of phone calls to guys who are on the inside, setting up draft boards. Over the years, he has built up a lot of trust in the NFL's inner sanctum, and so he gets real information, not smoke screen stuff. Almost every year, according to the Huddle Report's rankings, Gosselin blows away the competition when it comes to predicting the first round and in calculating which players will go in the top 100 picks.
The drawback? Because he trades in real information, Gosselin doesn't release his position lists until mid-April, and his annual "top 100" comes out the only the day before the draft. So, you'll have to wait until the last minute to get the best stuff. But what do they say: good things come to those who wait?
I'm willing to wait, but the anticipation is killing me: April can't come soon enough!
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McShay's every bit as good of a scout as Mayock.
I honestly don’t get the love for Mayock, yes ESPN is lame…so is every other televised sports commentary program. McShay is one of the few bright spots for the World Wide Leader. Yes, the CW tends to agree with him, but I’m guessing that’s because him and Scouts Inc. tend to be a bearish conservative organization. He speaks for the whole company, so he can’t get too far out in front or too pet catish, unlike other draft talking heads.
I really think you're crazy
I would rather watch the Draft on mute than have to listen to any of the ESPN guys.
But
Mel Kiper is still a good source for draft talk. He knows it and I believe he watches a lot of College Football as well.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
ChiaCrack has become a standard of measuring football fact knowledge
this chart is probably logarithmic.
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
good looks
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 13, 2012 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
Let me say...I HATE Drafttek. Kidding! But seriously....
…their interactive mock draft feature is so damn addicting, I spent a good amount of time tinkering around with it (needs, board) every year and plan to fail some more exams because of it again this year.
I am in general agreement with your assessment, rabble. As I got to your first rounders, I was like “I can’t BELIEVE you left out Rick Gosselin”….then I read further. I’m with you, I’m kind of pissed his stuff doesn’t come out till mid-April.
I’m in direct opposition with Omar up there. I don’t like McShay at all. Mayock is one of the best…every year, his analysis during the Combine on NFLNetwork is simply amazing. McShay…I just feel like he doesn’t do all the work. One really good example is his description of a prospect earlier this year…I think it was Jerel Worthy.
There was a typo listing him at 240lbs instead of 340lbs or something like that. McShay’s description was that Worthy is better off playing “OLB instead of DE” or something insane like that. I dunno….I don’t feel like I can trust his work, or he’s got a department doing it for him and he’s just the talking head…someone that ESPN put in to be like a “rival” of Mel Kiper.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 4:55 PM CST reply actions
Why don't you like McShay?
I mean Mayock is okay, I think he gets way too overrated by old school footballl types. I recall Mayock going all gaga over Ronnie Brown and several other players that ended up being just kinda “meh” or even straight terrible.
call it just a feeling...just rubs me the wrong way I guess. That example I gave sorta pissed me off.
Have you seen Mayock break down prospects during the Combine? Its insane. And he’s gotten a ton of hits as well. I remember him hitting on JPP after everyone else thought he was going to be ass. He was also high on Carlos Dunlap and Tyson Alualu.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
I get that...he'll rub people the wrong way and just kinda wing it at times
Mayock does too, you’ll get the impression that he’s talking out of his ass at times or parroting the CW. Please don’t put Dunlap and Alualu in the same sentence, Dunlap’s a beast and Alualu is a good player that was taken too early. As far as JPP, McShay had him as the 10th best player in the draft in 2010 and I think he liked Alualu just not as a top 10 pick.
Mayock
When he speaks about a player, you know he’s seen the guy on film, and is well versed in what a kid’s strength’s and weaknesses are. He also gives an informed opinion as to why he likes a guy and why he thinks a guy will go in a certain spot.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 5:18 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, that's not true.
It took him until after the John Gruden interview to jump on the Earl Thomas bandwagon where Scouts Inc was already plenty high on Earl Thomas.
He wanted to have all the info on him before he liked him
Can’t fault a guy for doing due dilligence. Going into the 2009 College Season, people were talking about Taylor Mays and Eric Berry as the best safeties. Earl Thomas came on late, people weren’t sure about him. By the time the combine rolled around Thomas rose and people say Taylor Mays for what he was, an athlete whose not good enough to see the field outside of special teams.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 5:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
a lot of ppl gave him flak for being high on matt ryan.
they figured he was just close to the kid and his fam since hes also a BC alum. But I think a lot of ppl would agree, Matty Ice has worked out well so far. Thats just one example.
Mayock didn't have Alualu as a top 10er....just in the first round.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 5:21 PM CST up reply actions
That was just about everyone's beef
The Jags just reached way too high for him, not that he’s a bad player just in the 30-40 range rather than top 10.
Agreed.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
want to put this here so it didn't get pushed down
but I agree with you on the ODS….in fact I plan on putting out a series based loosely on my “Position Outlook” series(link goes to the latest one, and has a link to all the previous ones) where I will be using the ODS to mock the Cowboys draft….hopefully I will be getting it out shortly after the combine….
and I have mentioned this before, the ODS had the top ten almost perfectly positioned(except for the Cleveland/Falcons trade and the Redskins trade, though it was still on point on the player(the ODS had Jones going to Cleveland and Kerrigan going to the Redskins….
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 16, 2012 8:23 AM CST up reply actions
Omar
McShay was the dummy who convinced Jevan Snead to entire the draft in 2010. During the 2009 Season, McShay was touting him as a first round pick. Snead played mediocre at best, left school, and now he’s a footnote in NFL draft lore. He wasn’t drafted, and was cut twice the Bucs in 2010, and couldn’t even hack it as an Arena League QB.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 5:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Everyone gets picks wrong
It’s a different thing when people say in college that he’s a first talent, lots of QBs can look good in college. You can hardly say that the fact that he said that Snead was a first round talent. Entering the 2010 season everyone thought that he was good, and he ended up killing his career himself. You can’t blame McShay for that, Snead was the universal number two behind Bradford from everyone entering the season.
Besides, Mayock liked Mike Williams after the year off…everyone gets things wrong.
Everyone didn't think Snead was first rd good
Only McShay and Pete Prisco. McShay was more conservative calling him a top 10 talent. Prisco went the full distance and projected him as the best QB-bunch of BS.
I’m may not get paid for my opinion, but from the college games I watched in 2008 and 2009, I never said to myself Jevan Snead was top 10 guy let alone a first rd pick.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 5:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I like McShay
but didn’t he say Snead should have come out of school and he went back to school and sucked?
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 13, 2012 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
After 2009 he had Snead as a top QB prospect going into 2010
Snead obviously screwed that up that year…hardly on McShay, dude just collapsed.
yes
and McShay was saying he should have come out then because his stock was at an all time high
had he listened to Todd, he would have been so rich and a bust, but still rich
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 13, 2012 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
Reminds me of a quote:
“… all the people that were rooting on me to fail, at the end of the day, they have to wake up tomorrow and have the same life that they had before they woke up today,” James said. “They have the same personal problems they had today. I’m going to continue to live the way I want to live and continue to do the things that I want to do with me and my family and be happy with that.”
Lebron just needs to shut up and ball in the 4th quarter
Live up to the loftty prediction of “not four not five not six not 7…”
Yeah LeBron, until you grow a pair and don’t shy away from crunch time you definitely won’t win 7 rings let alone 1.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 6:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
mcshay is the least accurste scout out of the all.
He had RGIII in the wide reciever category and listed Whitney Mercilus at 350+ lbs. Dude is oblivious…
by Mac_Eleven on Feb 13, 2012 5:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
THATS what it was....
Mercilus….being listed as 350 and saying he’d be better suited as DT when it was supposed to be a typo and should have said he was 250.
I had it reversed. Yeah, that was a clear example of McShay talking out of his ass.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
Ronnie Brown’s only problem was staying healthy. When he played he was really good.
These were his numbers in Miami
1,128 carries, 4815 yards, 4.26 ypc, 37 TDs.
184 catches, 1491 yards, 8.1 ypc, 2 TDs.
In 2007, thru 7 games he was on pace to have 2,200 total yards season. Got injured and missed the final 9 games. He finished with 119 carries, 602 yards, 5.1 ypc, 4 TDs, 39 catches, 389 yards, 1 TD.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 5:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
thats the problem with all RBs
they always battle health issues. Emmitt was just too unique. Can you spend real money on a spot that is always battling health issues?
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 14, 2012 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
yeah he was talking about Mercilus and said he would be a great stuffer at DT because he was over 300 pounds
#awkward
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 13, 2012 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
yup yup that was it, I had it backwards lol
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
yeah that was awkward for McShay
I felt bad for him because if I did that, my draft career would have been over before it even started
but he co-founded Scouts Inc, and he is usually right about guys
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 13, 2012 5:27 PM CST up reply actions
Of course it would have been. He hits on a lot, but you can't afford to make that kind of mistake
That shows me that he doesn’t do alot of the work himself. That sort of cements him as a talking head in my eyes…put there to be a foil to Kiper. I like Mayock because, again, his instant analysis of game tape and combine drills shows that he knows what he’s doing. That, and his NFL Network Thursday Night Football broadcasts show the same thing….that he’s ballin’.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 5:29 PM CST up reply actions
He's the head of Scouts Inc and does ESPN's college football live
He does plenty of work himself. There’s probably guys that he’ll write on that he didn’t personally see, but there’s what? 190 some players that get drafted? That’s quite a bit of work. It seems for draft analysis everywhere the that the analysis is front load, overkill on the first rounders and undercooked everywhere else.
Of course. And I understand that, and its fine....
I just didn’t appreciate it over what Mayock brings. I’m not saying McShay is a bad analyst….I just don’t trust him over Mayock.
Not to mention he looks really smug all the time hahaha.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
you smug, smug bastard you
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 5:36 PM CST up reply actions
lol true.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 5:36 PM CST up reply actions
Omar Little....
I understand your point about a couple hundred guys getting drafted and McShay not exactly “knowing” about all of them, but Mercilus is guy folks have as a first round talent! If your “job” is the draft you should AT LEAST know about the guys projected in the first 3 rounds! For real! It’s not like he was talking about some borderline 7th rounder. I can understand if he doesn’t know Joe Schmoe from BFE State University who may or may not get drafted but he was talking about a guy who’s gonna be a top 30 pick! That shows his level of “expertise” right there.
"A successful coach needs a paitient wife, a loyal dog, and a great quarterback. But if you don't have a wife the dog can pull double duty." --Barry Switzer
by Tennessee_Jed on Feb 15, 2012 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
McShay is whack imo the only "analyst"
I can listen to on BSPN is Trent along w/ Mayock on his draft expertise of course.
"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22
"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy
by DarkKnight88 on Feb 15, 2012 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
Well all these guys have sooooo many players to evaluate.
It’’s basically spend a lot of time on the sexy names, and on other guys like Mercilus look at his height and weight and gloss over a few reports on him and just ball park it. Their jobs are to entertain fans first and foremost. Focus on the big names you have two months to evaluate the 2nd round talent on.
You just nailed ESPN's job description for Kiper and Mayock
Mayock talks about guys during the shrine game and senior bowl who aren’t first rounders as well. ESPN won’t mention those guys until Mayock or Bunting do. I’ve seen this happen plenty of times, especially this year during the week of the Shrine Game-Mayock was raving about Josh Norman, Brandon Brooks, and the CB from Vanderbilt…a day or so later, ESPN mentions them.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 5:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
which is why I like both, but will generally defer to Mayock for later round prospects
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 6:00 PM CST up reply actions
On Norm's show on The Ticket
I could have sworn that Norm H. stated that the Dallas Morning News was not going to have Goose do the draft this year. I’ll go back and check, but I remember yelling at the radio when he said it.
Oh, my bad.
My bad?!
Your bad don't work in my world! -Ray Lewis
There was talk that the DMN is going to promote Gosselin to full-time columnist, which could imply that he wouldn’t cover the draft anymore.
But I don’t think even the DMN would be that silly.
by One.Cool.Customer on Feb 13, 2012 5:15 PM CST up reply actions
That would highly upset me. You guys don't even know how much money I've won from my friends
betting on the draft. I use him a source and I always get the most right. They have no clue who he is. This would destroy my alcohol funding for the summer.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
lol
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 13, 2012 5:29 PM CST up reply actions
yeah it is
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
I'm way more hardcore NFL, especially draft, then my friends are.
They shouldn’t bet money against me, but their hubris is always their downfall.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 8:01 PM CST up reply actions
than, not then
grammar policing myself lol
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 8:02 PM CST up reply actions
I won $200 from a friend whose hubris got the best of him
He proclaimed loud and clear that Cam Newton was the next JaMarcus Russell. Oh was he looking stupid during the regular season.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
niiiiice
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 9:26 PM CST up reply actions
He was promoted to full time columnist
That I am sure about.
Oh, my bad.
My bad?!
Your bad don't work in my world! -Ray Lewis
by TexasGarcia37 on Feb 13, 2012 5:54 PM CST up reply actions
Norm is mad annoying
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 13, 2012 5:27 PM CST up reply actions
Norm is kind of a goon
but I LOVE him. He eats,breathes, sleeps and s&*ts sports, and knows everything.
I guess
he is just annoying as hell, I listen to his show but man
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 13, 2012 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
You've got to be patient
He’s an acquired taste. To me he’s the weak link, but I do enjoy his draft conversations with experts.
Oh, my bad.
My bad?!
Your bad don't work in my world! -Ray Lewis
by TexasGarcia37 on Feb 13, 2012 5:55 PM CST up reply actions
Hand it to Norm on the Cowboys, though
He was beating the drum that this team wasn’t talented back in 2009 when a lot of people thought it was the most talented roster in the NFL.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Feb 13, 2012 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
If Mel Kiper didn't have great hair and a smug look on his face
He’s be a camp body
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 5:04 PM CST via mobile reply actions
and if I had great hair, I would be on ESPN
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 13, 2012 5:27 PM CST up reply actions
You can't look worse than Terry Bradshaw can you?
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 6:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
lol
I have great hair, I just cant grow it out, never have
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 13, 2012 7:25 PM CST up reply actions
you can't just sprinkle some water and watch it grow?

"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 7:51 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
LOL
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 14, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
sorry Chia but I have to rec that
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 16, 2012 8:27 AM CST up reply actions
good looks rabble, appreciate the shout out
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 13, 2012 5:27 PM CST reply actions
LOL
I gotta find Kipers hair stylist!
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 13, 2012 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
I think McShay is overrated
Does anyone else remember in 2008 when he was all over Andre Woodson? He kept saying he was a legitimate 1st round pick, and thought he could end up being the best QB in the class.
He was taken in the 6th round and couldn’t even stick on a roster as a developmental guy.
...but McShay is really good at it.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Gotta be good at something, I suppose.
I actually don’t think he’s that bad. Definitely wouldn’t be the first source I’d go to, though. And I agree with what BBI said earlier, they try to cast him as the foil for Kiper, and it gets very annoying.
Todd McShay? The Blaine Gabbert bandwagon driver?
Puh-leeze.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
He's also calling for Osweiler to be drafted in the1st round.
Idiot.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
QB is the hardest position to predict
I don’t consider QB grades when I “grade the scouts” because QB is such a dice roll.
Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers were 2nd rounders, Romo went undrafted, Brady was a 6th round pick.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Feb 13, 2012 7:45 PM CST up reply actions
Brady was passed over for Spurgeon Wynn-completed less than 50% of his passes at SW Texas St I think
I remember during the 2000 draft ESPN was just killing Cleveland for that pick. Jaws had a field day and Kiper just looked dumbfounded.
I liked Brady, would I have taken him in the first round, probably not. But damnit, I wouldn’t have minded at all if Jerry took him in the 2nd round instead of Dwayne Goodrich.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
Some other McShay hits
This year he’s driving the bandwagon on Osweiler and Tannehill as first rd guys.
Mayock doesn’t have them in there, but rather lumping them in a group with Weeden, Cousins, Foles, and Lindley as middle round guys.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 6:04 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I think Tannehill and Osweiler might actually go in the first. I hate Tannehill (not personally, as a prospect)
and I’m shaky on Osweiler…reminds me an awful lot like Roethlisberger.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 6:07 PM CST up reply actions
I don't see the Big Ben comparisons for Osweiler
He doesn’t have the big frame like Ben, and doesn’t have his arm.
When I see Osweiler, I cringe.
When I see Tannehill, I see somethings I like-mobility, throwing on the run, throws with anticipation. Like I said this morning, he’s a borderline 1st rd guy at best. I’d take him in the second rd, but behind Cousins.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 6:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Osweiler has a really weird throwing motion, but he has a decent arm.
He doesn’t have the mobility of Ben either, but the dude is huge. 6’8 and not all that skinny.
Tannehill looks WAY too skittish to me. No pocket presence and doesn’t do a good job going through his progressions, often locking on to his first read. If I had to go with a “bust” prediction, he’d be it.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 6:42 PM CST up reply actions
From the few TAMU games I saw
Tannehill took his time.
He looked skittish because his oline, in my opinion didn’t look that good in pass protection. His receivers aren’t all that good either except for that Swope kid whose basically a Welker/Edalmann type.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 6:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
He has plenty of weapons.
Jeff Fuller, Ryan Swope, Cyrus Gray. His OL had a little bit of a fault too, but he held the ball way too long. Compare what he can do to basically any successful first round prospect, and I just don’t see it. Very inexperienced too. I think he has a chance if he can sit behind someone for awhile, otherwise he’s just Mark Sanchez 2.0.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 6:50 PM CST up reply actions
Dude
Jeff Fuller is Roy E Williams 2.0
From the bad hands to the same physique
I’m not saying I’d start Tannehill right away. But give him 2-3 years to develop (he’s a converted WR). Long term I’d rather have him or Kirk Cousins over a guy like Weeden. If I’m the Jets, I draft Weeden in the 2nd rd to challenge Mark Sanchez, if Weeden beats him, I give the job to him, and trade Mark to Seattle-let Pete Carrol enjoy his former Trojan at QB.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 6:55 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Fuller had a down year this year....he destroyed people the year before.
If he gets back to form, he could be a dangerous weapon for whoever takes him in the late rounds. I wouldnt’ take Weeden, because if I’m drafting a college QB, I don’t want him for a few years. I agree though with your assessment of what the Jest should do.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 7:07 PM CST up reply actions
I view Weeden as a good bridge the gap starter until you find a longterm solution
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
thats true
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 8:02 PM CST up reply actions
I like Tannenhill
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 13, 2012 7:25 PM CST up reply actions
You know when you get that feeling about a prospect...something that just feels "off"?
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 13, 2012 8:03 PM CST up reply actions
yup, all the time man
I feel that way with Dennard now, something just isn’t right about him
I like Tannenhill, whenever I watched him I saw a kid with major upside and the Aaron Rodgers type of body and style
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 14, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not really sure I buy into any of these guys as draft savants.
Goose is awesome for his real-time info but reading scouting reports from everyone does make me question how much scouts really know. The best example I read recently was Wes Bunting talking to Raf and essentially implying that Coples is a better athlete than JJ Watt. Perhaps that is what he thinks he sees on tape, but JJ Watt had a 37" vertical and an insane short shuttle coming out of the combine. The chance that Coples tops that is quite small. It just makes me wonder how critical of thinkers scouts are. There is certainly a hierarchy in terms of who I like more, but to a certain extent I kind of just accept that a lot of them are probably talking out of their ass.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Feb 13, 2012 6:07 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I hate to bring up race, but, my guess is, if JJ Watt wasn't white, people wouldn't question his athleticism
All scouts are hesitant about a white guy’s athleticism unless he just stands out like Clay Matthews-who btw isn’t quite the athlete DeMarcus Ware is. J/K
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 6:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Again
That’s just what it seems to me. I can be completely wrong. Birddog, can you please weigh in?
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Feb 13, 2012 6:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Some truth to what you speak
I am a University of Texas alum and Bryan Robison of the Minnesota Vikings fell into that trap when he graduated. He was a DE that was by far one of the best pure athletes to ever play at Texas. But you would never have known that because of his color. His numbers were ridiculous.
Oh, my bad.
My bad?!
Your bad don't work in my world! -Ray Lewis
by TexasGarcia37 on Feb 13, 2012 6:41 PM CST up reply actions
LOL
he kicked a Packer in the nuts this year, best play I saw on the Vikings all year too
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 13, 2012 7:27 PM CST up reply actions
I love that signature
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
LOL thanks
its great right!
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 14, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
actually considering I detest Egg McMuffins
I would say that he is the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB’s…..
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 16, 2012 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
Thanks for the update Rabble.
I was hoping you were going to do this again.
Scouts
1. Mike mayock
2. Wes bunting
Other than that the rest of these “scouts” are middle of the road… They all miss early and often…
by drobe86 on Feb 13, 2012 7:54 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Do yourselves a favor
And follow @JoshNorris (the “Overrated Prospects” guy featured in a recent BTB Front Page story). Dude has NFL experience (admittedly only a little) and knows his stuff. I’ll take him over any of the guys listed here.
Wes bunting is too high
He talked about how mercilus was overrated & stiff & not going to be a good pass rusher in the NFL. Then he says vinny curry & Shea McClellan could be good solid starters & solid pass rushers but only has them 2 slots ahead of mercilus.
And in his mock he has mercilus going in the first but not the other 2 or Bruce Irvin who he is very high on.
And some of his reports are contradictory. Wes should be in the 3rd round range.
by Gen_cornrow_wallace on Feb 13, 2012 10:18 PM CST reply actions
Sorry to be the spoilsport here, but I think Wes Bunting is way overrated
His last two Huddle report scores for his mock drafts were 35 in 2010 and 39 in 2011. That placed him 76th and 43rd respectively.
His big board is purposely designed in such a way that it can’t be compared to regular big boards: by ranking strictly by his own grades, it is actually a grading scale, and not a big board as the title above his rankings implies.
Bunting gets a lot of respect among Cowboys fans, and he provides more information (for free) than anybody else, so that’s good, but he’s simply not very accurate in his predictions.
by One.Cool.Customer on Feb 14, 2012 2:59 AM CST reply actions
I read Bunting because he has a unique outlook . . .
And from time to time, I will find a little nugget or pearl of wisdom . . . his content is better than his rankings.
The devil must have icycles on his nose . . . I’m agreeing with OCC . . . LOL!
From the hometown of Bob Lilly,
his board is totally different from anyone else
I never saw a board set up like that before, its kinda cool
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 14, 2012 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
Bunting
Doesn’t have much of a track record to compare him with. He’s only been at NFP for about 4 years. Until Michael Lombardi left to go to NFL Network most of those grades were his. The grading system was given to NFP/Bunting by Lombardi.
by b roo on Feb 14, 2012 2:05 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

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