Myth Busters: Dallas' Sad Pass Rush
by AustonianAggie on Feb 14, 2012 11:39 AM CST
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PrintMost of us Dallas fans are very frustrated with our defensive line, which according to ESPN's positional series here had a paltry 10.5 sacks. Anthony Spencer has also been criticized for not getting to the QB more. In the first game versus the Giants, Dallas didn't hit Eli Manning once in 50 drop backs. That is bad.
But you don't get hit when you just chuck the ball to who ever is covered by a bad corner back as soon as you drop back.
Dallas is tied for the 7th most sacks in the NFL in 2011.
This chart is thanks to NFL.com.
The NFL leader in Sacks, Minnesota, only had 8 more sacks than Dallas. This is telling me that the pass rush is not the essential flaw in the defense and puts even more focus on the problematic secondary. You might claim Dallas puffed up it's sack total, but all these teams compete VS the NFL.
Dallas was #7 vs the run, and #7 in sacks acquired; one would argue that with such a bad secondary, why would anyone run against Dallas. The reality of NFL football is that any team that can run first will do so, and every team that faces you will first test your run defense (ala Philly) before risking passes even against a depleted secondary.
Anthony Spencer got 6 sacks this year and fans are down on him. He got 6 sacks in 2009 and SI's writers put him on their All-NFL team. Timing is quite funny. Many of us have fond memories of Spencer and Ware vs New Orleans in 2009. New Orleans doesn't tend towards 3 step drops for one; and in 2009 both Mike Jenkins and Terrance Newman were in the Pro Bowl.
Every NFL team needs a constant stream of young players in to every group on the roster; if Anthony Spencer leaves Dallas will have very little choice in selecting an OLB prospect in the draft; an OLB in round 1 will be virtually required. I believe retaining Spencer is in the best interests of the Dallas Cowboys. I'm hoping he resigns at a reasonable price but I am growing used to the idea of franchising him, because his role is essential, Mario Williams is too expensive, and there are no other comparable FA players who'd be a real improvement over Spencer.
On the other hand there is the Pittsburgh Steelers way. They often draft OLBs in the 4th round, develop them slowly, let their OLBs walk in contract years and bring up the young guy. Perhaps this is the destiny of Victor Butler, but rumors of a Spencer Franchise Tag lead me to doubt the club's faith in Butler as an every down player.
All of this post adds up to thus: if Dallas does not put serious resources towards fixing the secondary, nothing else on Defense will matter. Letting the OLB roster spot hold Dallas' player acquisition resources hostage by letting Spencer walk is a bad move when Adequate Anthony can transmogrify in to Awesome Anthony when combined with good pass coverage.
You cannot deny that the 2009 Saints were a great team with a great offense. They won the Super Bowl that year. I'm hoping Spencer resigns at a value that's doesn't hogtie the team, because the real flaws are behind him.
This debate about Routt is at the heart of the matter. No Dallas fan doubts Dallas needs FA CB walk in starter; and no one doubts Dallas will have to pay for that CB. For most of us fans the question is whether Routt, Finnegan or another CB is the right one. I suspect Dallas is looking for someone like Anthony Henry, who was signed when he was 29 and played 4 good years for Dallas.
It is still essential to be good against the run. Dallas was no good against Philly's run and look what Philly did to Dallas. Dallas still gets the sacks, believe it or not. Here are some funny notes:
- in 2007 Dallas was #3 in Sacks with 46, 4 more than this year's
- Dallas had 35 sacks in 2010, 2011 showed a +7 improvement
- Dallas was #7 in sacks in 2009 with 42 sacks, overall 2009 was our best Defensive performance since going to a 3-4
42 sacks - the 2011 total - is typical of the better defensive years Dallas has. If you were to look at the statistical performance of the front 7 in Dallas in 2011 alone, you'd of thought Dallas had a good year.
My conclusions are that Anthony Spencer is good (enough). To fix the defense, fix the secondary. Anything less than that will accomplish nothing.
The Hanging Questions
- can Victor Butler emerge?
- will BPA be too enticing, thus selecting virtually any player at any position but not one of need?
- the Front 7 always needs new players, when does Dallas start adding to it? The secondary needs more new players... more than the offensive line?
The Springer Moment
There are positions that are harder than others to draft for as the draft progresses. Typically among the hardest combine elite athleticism with elite size. Great defensive tackles and offensive tackles are the bell cows of this trend. If Dallas skips over a DB in the 1st, and skips over a Guard (a guard in the first sounds unlikely doesn't it?), I'm looking towards the largest defenders -- not OLBs that weigh 250lbs, but the 310lbs type dudes. Ware's ratio of speed to size is freakish demanding his high pick. I doubt any OLB comes out this year that can do what he does. Super freaks like him are hard to find and a great commodity. The hardest to find commodity that is usually only at the top of the draft is the enormous guy with good speed -- so if Dallas skips CB, I'd still expect a 5tech or NT more than a OLB.
Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.
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You make a very convincing argument
I’ve mostly been in the camp that thinks improving the pass rush will improve the secondary. Your numbers seem to show this is not necessarily the case.
What I saw in the games last year that doesn’t necessarily translate into statistics (except for “quarterback pressures/hurries”, and I have no idea who decides that or how), is that we seemed to ALMOST get to the quarterback tons of times last year only to see somebody beat a corner one on one for a big gain.
Perhaps an improved secondary next year changes this. Maybe the sacks wont improve, but completion percentages would go down seemingly and turnovers would likely increase. Guys like Rodgers, Brees, and (ok I’ll say it) Eli Manning are very good at not holding on to the ball to take a sack. Sometimes these guys can get it out of bounds, but then other times if somebody is in their face and a quick decision must be made, they will go ahead and toss it downfield on a guess that their guy will beat our guy. It would be nice next year if opposing QBs guessed wrong more times than right and the result is more turn overs or lack of third down conversions.
I don’t know the stats on this one but it just seemed like there were too many times our D played great on 1st and 2nd down only to come up a yard short on 3rd down, keeping drives alive. Our defensive third down coversion percentage against must have been absoulutely horrible from what I saw, keeping our defense on the field series after series wearing them down in the fourth quarter. Our safties playing 15 to 20 yards deep covering our CBs asses were part of this as well.
I"m really starting to think that getting one more stud on the o-line (OG), a serviceable veteran C, and two more legit CBs would help this team more than anything else.
Furthermore..
Yeah, it is absoulutely necessary to stop the run first. Contrary to popular belief, it is not a “pass first” league. That is football 101. Why throw it if you can run? Spencer is not the worst thing for this team. Neither is Spears on 1st, 2nd down. They both can hold their ground and stop the run. Getting gouged by McCoy time after time last year was less fun that getting stomped in the secondary.
I agree with that assessment
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by AustonianAggie on Feb 14, 2012 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Agree that Spencer is not the problem
and that the Secondary is, but the secondary is not the only problem. We need a good inside rush/push from the DL and ILBs that are capable of pass rushing effectively a few times a game.
So many times last year Ware or Spencer would apply outside pressure and all the QB would need to do is step into is cosy pocket since we had about zero push up the middle from the DL. I do admit that Lissy made a good impression on me when he was in there and seemed to get a good push.
Except for on jailbreak sacks, it always seems to me that it is the second pressure player that gets the sack as QBs are usually able to avoid the first pressure player. Dallas’s problem last year was there was no second pressure player to finish off the play.
by Through Thick And Thin on Feb 14, 2012 12:58 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
+1, I second that sentiment below.
your comment popped up as I was posting mine.
If we stay with a 34
which I think we will despite rumors, a NT is a must. I’m not talking about a NT in the draft who could play in a rotation…I’m talking about a dominant FA like Soliai or Red Bryant who could come in and legitimately push Ratliff to DE. If you want to talk about rush up the middle, having a NT who gives up zero space while Rat and Hatcher are slicing through will not only destroy pockets, but prevent QBs from holding the ball. With Ware coming around the outside and Ratliff/Hatcher coming up the middle, teams will have to get rid of the ball faster. Which means, shoring up the secondary becomes a must.
As the OP brought up, guys like Eli just have to chuck the ball up to whatever receiver he wants and they come down with it. Upgraded CBs keep QBs from taking so many chances resulting in either more check downs, more sacks, or more incompletions…all good for us
by inwittenitrust on Feb 14, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
A great DE is worth more than a great NT
by Jonathan Stern on Feb 16, 2012 8:49 AM CST up reply actions
The Thought is, by aquiring a dominant/ more traditional NT we effectively get both.
With Ratliff sliding over to DE and taking on more of a 1 gap responsibility.
Agreed and rec'd, but...
IMO I do not think they should pay out 9 mil to franchise Spencer. I am for Spencer and believe that he is not the main problem on the D or the front 7. I agree that the secondary is the main concern on the defense and after that the interior d-lineman as too often QB’s were offered a clean pocket to step up into to deliver the pass to an open receiver. In short I would be happy to keep Spencer just not at that price tag.
yeah 9 million is tough to fathom
I doubt it happens. I’m in the camp that thinks that was a complimentary overture. Dallas claims to not waste time developing players that cannot develop in to starters, so maybe Dallas really will give Victor Butler a chance
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by AustonianAggie on Feb 14, 2012 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
yeah IDK what that was about,
maybe they want to ward off any potential suitors?
A NT that can just hold ground or get even a
1 to 2 yard push on passing downs would benefit greatly. Doesn’t have to be a future HOF. Imagine Ratliff at strongside DE crashing down at an angle. The NT gets just a small push. The QB is flushed to the weakside. Most righthanded QBs (romo aside—lol) HATE moving to the left and throwing against momentum. And we got somebody over there anyways they want no part of. Right handed QBs must be something like 90 percent of the league.
Combine that with CBs that can hold their man just ONE BLOODY SECOND longer and I think we’ve got something.
Challenge's..
… synchronicity, between players and units in making a team, more than sacks, secondary and such.
Or is that “Challenges”?
That's one small step...
that’s funny I had the very word SYNCHRONICITY in my mind just as I was considering the consequences of what I wrote.
It takes all units to succeed. Great talents like Demarcus Ware and Archie Manning can be spotted from outer space. But what makes Erik Williams great? He did neutralize Reggie White — but without Troy Aikman throwing to Irvin and Emmitt running for 1000s of yards, his accomplishment would be forgotten by all except the most attentive fans. That 2009 defense was very good because every defensive unit was pretty good and none of them lacked. Pretty good defenders over all added up to an elite unit.
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by AustonianAggie on Feb 14, 2012 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
This is my first post to make the recomended list!
Thank’s all y’all Cowboys fans
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
The Cowboys pass rush is DeMarcus Ware against the league , He is 30 you can’t expect Ware is going to get 19.5 sacks every year either.
Upgrade the pass rush or the Packers kill us
we need cornerbacks or the Packers will keep on killing us
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by AustonianAggie on Feb 14, 2012 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
you are right about that too.
in fact our secondary is worse than our pass rush but our pass rush is DeMarcus Ware against the league ,That is not anywhere enough to get us where we want to go.
by Jonathan Stern on Feb 14, 2012 9:20 PM CST up reply actions
Yes,
I agree that our pass rush is not too bad, but I think that an aging Ware is a big warning sign.Do pass-rushers remain great into their 30s the way QBs do? We have three superstars who are head-and-shoulders above the rest of the team: Ware, Witten, Romo. IMO they need to be replaced in that order, over the next five years, which means if we have any chance at Ware-like production we grab it with both hands.
That said, Ware is good for another couple of years and our pass rush isn’t bad right now. And yes, of course, of course, of course, a functioning secondary is the first step. (Put differently, the warning signs of Newman aging came and went years ago, and we can’t keep putting off his successor.)
Well
If a quarterback can easily throw quick passes on subpar cornerbacks like Terence Newman and Alan Ball, who have to play a million yards off the ball to not get beat, then the pass rush doesn’t really matter. This happened a lot last year, make no mistake. However, I really think you are overrating sacks. A quality pass rush has almost nothing to do with sacks. A quality pass rush is consistently pressuring the quarterback, and ours is incredibly inconsistent. Ratliff gets swallowed up in the middle, and Ware and Spencer often get ran out of the play. Spencer is never going to be a great pass rusher due to his lack of lateral agility, but our interior is providing no pressure. Our defensive ends aren’t getting there near enough. Sean Lissemore and Jason Hatcher are our only pass rushing ends. If they can’t consistently beat single matchups in the middle, then the quarterback is going to have a huge pocket to step up into. We absolutely need a difference maker in the middle. Hatcher is above average and Lissemore looked very promising, but everyone else is a stiff run stopper. We need a cornerback, but the lack of a difference making defensive end has held the defense back as long as they’ve been in the 3-4.
The defense wasn’t held back in 2007 or 2009, nor did they generate big plays. Those D’s played great by not giving up the big play in the pass game and playing the same run defense we’ve grown accustomed too. A great DE like Calias Cambell and heck — Stephen Bowen would of been nice — these guys could really up the Front 7, but Dallas really needs help in the secondary for any one to enjoy success.
We can live with JAGs in our pass rush when we don’t have Roy Williams playing Safety or Terrance Newman close to retirement
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by AustonianAggie on Feb 14, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
I think in free agency and the draft we can upgrade both the secondary and the pass rush.
There are lots of ways to play this.
I think we could come up with Quinton Coples ,Stephon Gilmore/ Chase Minnifield and Carl Nicks this off season
Just adding those three guys might give us enough to get us to 12-4.
In fact I would really like someone to make the case that even if we got those guys ( and Coples works out ) that we don’t get to 12-4.
by Jonathan Stern on Feb 14, 2012 9:27 PM CST up reply actions
this poll is looking rather decisive
76% so far say “Adequate Anthony” is right. It follows then that Dallas fans are ok keeping Anthony Spencer, but not at big money.
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I absolutely agree Spencer is not the problem
but when thinking about the franchise tag, the question is – is he worth 9 million? Thats pretty good money for a solid player who doesn’t really make gamechanging plays.Can we find a suitable replacement in terms of run D?
While his 6 sack numbers aren’t bad, he did have multiple sacks on running qbs last year. Its not like he did a great job of getting to the qb when he was in the pocket. Thats a little worrisome imo, though a good point was made above in that we had little interior rush to prevent the qb from stepping up.
I think it might be time to move on from Spencer...
unless he’s willing to come back really cheap (and that’s doubtful).
In the last quarter of the season Dallas had 7 sacks in those 4 games. Ware had 4.5, Lissemore had 1, Scandrick had 1, Hatcher had 0.5 and Spencer had zero.
In the last 8 weeks of 2011 Spencer had 2 sacks.
In Spencer’s last 13 games as a Cowboy he has 3 sacks.
I’m ready to draft a young OLB and team him with Butler.
Agree that Spencer is not the problem.
Or at least, not the biggest problem on the defense. Just don’t like the thought of spending $9M on him, even if it’s only for a year.
In any event, you’ve pretty much echoed the thoughts I’ve been having for the last month. Even one additional second afforded to our pass rush by having something other than stuff bodies (besides Jenkins, and I’ll give Scandrick and Sensabaugh half-credit) playing DB would pay out large dividends. That’s why Kirkpactrick and Jenkins are at the top of my list of draft targets we can get without a trade up. Dontari Poe at DT would also be nice.
by TheBlueBaron on Feb 15, 2012 3:45 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Hey what do you know!
Ryan was right to be looking at DBs! Who’d a thunk it!!?!??! Seriously, the people at Valley Ranch are far more knowledgable than we will ever be. Even in a sport like baseball, where the advanced metrics are miles better than football, the teams always know more than the fans. Teams still do dumb things and make mistakes, but you’re fooling yourself if you think you could do a better job.
If Newman wasn’t burned six yards deep, a lot of the pressures would be sacks and a lot of the hurries wouldn’t result in a bomb. The defense is a lot closer than anyone here is willing to admit, I’d say you some corners, a NT, and then a FS in that order. The OL needs more work than any unit, IMO.
curious what a full offseason and new coaches will do to the positions effected....
callahan did a great job with the offensive line in NY, and Henderson doubtless will shake things up in the secondary just by being somebody new…..full offseason for both to implement their styles plus a commitment by the front office to improve the depth will no doubt do wonders for both units….I have faith that at least one of the youngins out of Kowalski or Nagy will take over the center spot from Costa and that Arkin after having a complete year to adjust to the higher level of play will impress….
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 16, 2012 7:30 PM CST up reply actions
The Cowboys pass rush situation is far worse than anyone thinks it is
Can we really expect DeMarcus Ware to get 19.5 sacks next season? Reggie White didn’t get 19.0 sacks a season neither did Lawrence Taylor
What happens if he “only” has 12 ( a great number for anyone else) What do we do if he only gets 9.0 (it could happen)
Not only that Ratliff is going on 30 so is Jason Hatcher – the next best rusher the Cowboys have after Spencer.
If DeMarcus Ware tails off the Cowboys would have the very worst defense in the NFL
one thing about the pass rush you overlooked
The Cowboys got ten sacks in their first two games. In their last 14, they got just 32 more, about 2.3 per game. In the last four games, the Cowboys got a grand total of 7 sacks, 3 of which came against the pathetic Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
I think several things happened.
1. Dallas generated most of it pass rush pressure as a result of the Ryan blitzes.
2. The league caught up to that game plan pretty quickly and the better QBs punished Dallas when it blitzed
Does dallas need to improve its secondary play? No question. But it really needs to find a way to bring pressure when four guys rush. Outside of Demarcus Ware, that really wasn’t happening much. And without getting pressure on the QB, any secondary will get exposed.
Dog Bone
I think that's most defenses.
A lot of defenses beef up on weak OLs to rack up sacks, this isn’t exclusive to the Cowboys.
by Omar Little on Feb 20, 2012 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
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