The Anthony Spencer Scenario
by Archie Barberio on Feb 14, 2012 7:35 PM CST
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No player on the Cowboys roster is being talked about more than free agent to be, Anthony Spencer. My own personal opinions and views on Anthony Spencer have not been positive, but I will truly attempt to stay unbiased with my opinion on Spencer. I will also attempt to stay professional in this article and give Spencer a fair shake.
This all dates back to the 2007 NFL Draft and the method we took in acquiring Spencer on draft day. After moving out of the first round and picking up some extra draft picks, along with the Browns 2008 1st round pick, we traded our 2nd, 3rd and 5th round picks to the Eagles in order to move back into the first round at pick 26.
We gave up a lot of draft picks for ONE player and this ONE player was not a dynamic pass rusher worthy of those draft picks. I really don't have a problem with trading up for a player, but please make sure the player you are trading up for is a dynamic talent at his position.
Part of the reason the Cowboys drafted Spencer was due to his scouting reports coming out of Purdue. I decided to go back and do a Google search on "Anthony Spencer NFL Draft" and see what came up. I read over a lot of the scouting reports and draft grades Spencer received. After reading them I was blown away by the player they detailed, because the pro's that were listed were really awesome.
It's interesting reading the con's of his scouting reports, because in that aspect they were just about spot on.Looking at these scouting reports five years later, it is clear to me that the scouts overrated Spencer. The scouts were wrong about Spencer becoming a dynamic pass rusher and this led to the Cowboys overvaluing Spencer themselves on draft day.
The Cowboys also selected the wrong player. In my own personal opinion, Anthony Spencer was the wrong player selected by the Dallas Cowboys. I felt that Michigan's LaMarr Woodley would have been a better fit for the 3-4 defense we still run to this day.
Instead of drafting the more productive, but smaller Woodley, the Cowboys drafted the larger prospect, Anthony Spencer. This is where understimating a players size goes wrong and the Cowboys due have a fetish for large (6'3-6'5) outside linebackers. Yes, this can be considered hindsight looking at it this way now. But I wanted the Cowboys to draft Woodley back in 2007, not Spencer.
Let's compare Spencer to Woodley in college first and then move onto their pro production.
Anthony Spencer
- 2006- 93 tackles, 10.5 sacks, 26.5 tackles for loss
- 2005- 23 tackles, 3 sacks, 7.5 tackles for loss
- 2004- 33 tackles, 7.5 sacks, 9.5 tackles for loss
- 4.7 40 yard dash, 30 bench reps, 32 1/2 inch vertical, 9'04" broad jump, 4.43 20 yard shuttle, 7.14 cone drill
- Now listed at 6'3 257 by the Dallas Cowboys
NFL Statistics
- 2011- 66 tackles, 6 sacks, 4 forced fumbles
- 2010- 63 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles
- 2009- 67 tackles, 6 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 1 INT
- 2008- 34 tackles, 1.5 sacks
- 2007- 36 tackles, 3 sacks, 2 forced fumbles
- 21.5 career sacks
LaMarr Woodley
- 2006- Consensus All-American, 36 tackles, 12 sacks, 16.5 tackles for loss
- 2005- 48 tackles, 7 sacks, 14 tackles for loss
- 2004- 70 tackles, 4 sacks, 16 tackles for loss
- 2003- 23 tackles, 2 sacks, 4 tackles for loss
- 4.74 40 yard dash, 29 bench reps, 38 1/2 inch vertical, 9'9" broad jump, 4.42 20 yard shuttle
- Now listed at 6'2 265 by the Pittsburgh Steelers
NFL Statistics
- 2011- (10 games) 39 tackles, 9 sacks, 1 INT
- 2010- 50 tackles, 10 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, 2 INT
- 2009- 62 tackles, 13.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble
- 2008- 60 tackles, 11.5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 1 INT
- 2007- 14 tackles, 4 sacks, 1 forced fumble
- 48 career sacks
After drafting Spencer, I gave the Cowboys the benefit of the doubt and chalked it up as a major steal. I believed we finally landed DeMarcus Ware's partner for the next ten years and I thought we landed a dynamic pass rusher. I had no choice but to believe in Spencer back in 2007. It was Wade Phillips's first draft pick as head coach and I truly thought he had spotted his type of guy for his 3-4 defense.
Then I began to hear about the guy I wanted to draft that year, LaMarr Woodley and how his career was shaping up to be a real good one for the Steelers. Hindsight says that LaMarr Woodley was the player we should have taken. The Cowboys went against taking the smaller player and now that smaller player has 48 career sacks, while Spencer has 21.5 career sacks.
Spencer played a backup role and was very impressive as a rookie in 2007. In 2008 Spencer had sort of a down year in his sophomore season. It was only his first two years in Dallas, so I wanted to give him time before I declared he was a bust. So entering the 2009 season, I believed it would be Spencer's breakout campaign.
Spencer had a interesting season in 2009. By the middle of the year, I was really frustrated with him. Then the guy goes out there and really turns it on down the stretch. He displayed some of the stuff his scouting reports raved about and he was great against the run.
By the end of 2009, Spencer was on a lot of peoples radars. Sports Illustrated's Peter King declared that Spencer should have been an all pro at linebacker. I was feeling really good about Spencer heading into the 2010 season. Spencer, along with basically the entire defense, collapsed and fell apart. Wade Phillips got canned and Jason Garrett took over. After a disappointing 2010 campaign, once again I felt that next season would be Spencer's breakout year.
Spencer was heading into a contract year, which is usually the perfect time for a player wanting to cash in and step up his play significantly. Spencer started off the year hot with 4 sacks, but had no sacks the last four weeks of the season and totally disappeared in the biggest game of the season, week 17 with the playoffs on the line. Spencer finished with 6 sacks again and left a whole lot more to be desired as a pass rusher.
Spencer is an average football player, and trust me I want to say he just sucks. But he doesn't just suck, he can give you some amazing moments as a football player. The blocked kick this year showed his athleticism, but then he can disappear for weeks at a time. The major issue I have with Spencer is consistency, he is very inconsistent and doesn't show up in big games. His sack on Rex Grossman in the first Redskins game this season might have been one of his biggest plays in his career. There are just not enough of those plays over his career in Dallas to make me believe he will contribute at a high level.
I am not expecting DeMarcus Ware 2.0 on the other side, but I do expect that player to be consistent and a good pass rusher. I don't care how many tackles you rack up and how good you are against the run, if you cannot rush the passer well this defense will fail.
Now it is 2012 and March 3rd is the beginning of the NFL free agency period. The big news out of Valley Ranch is the supposed possibility of franchising Spencer for 8.5 million dollars. If the Cowboys franchise Spencer, basically all of their free agency money will be spent on one under performing player. Anthony Spencer is not worth 8.5 million dollars.
If the Cowboys tag Spencer, you kiss all of that cap money goodbye. That means no Carl Nicks, no Mario Williams, no Cortland Finnegan and no Chris Meyers. It will take up almost all of our money when they tag him and it will ruin our off season.
If they wanted to give him a one year deal for like 4-5 million dollars, that would be alright with me. But do not dedicate most of your cap space to a player who has yet to play like a 8.5 million dollar player. The realist in me says this is all a smokescreen, but there is always Jerry Jones cutting the checks. I have no idea what he is up to with this Spencer situation. I have no idea where he stands on the situation and quite frankly, that scares me to death.
The realist in me says that this is all Jerry Jones being clever. If they wanted Spencer back so desperately, why didn't they extend his contract when they had the cap space earlier in the season? Instead, Jerry gave new deals to Orlando Scandrick and Gerald Sensabaugh. If Jerry really wanted Spencer back, why didn't he just get it done before?
Jerry Jones can do anything he wants and he will decide if Spencer is brought back. Rob Ryan will have a big say in the ordeal as well and I wonder what Ryan really thinks about Spencer. He hyped him up all season long like Spencer had a title fight in Vegas.
People say not resigning Spencer would be a mistake and create an unnecessary hole on the roster. I would look at drafting a pass rusher in the draft if we decided to not resign Spencer. You better draft one in the first two rounds because that is where most of the good ones will go. Many say that Courntey Upshaw is another Spencer and they do have very similar games. I expect that Upshaw will ultimately be the better NFL player and has a higher ceiling. That is why I would draft Upshaw, because I believe he will develop into a better player than Spencer.
At the end of the day folks, I want to move on from Anthony Spencer. He has not developed since we drafted him in 2007. He has never had more than 6 sacks in a NFL season. He has not lived up to his draft day trade and selection. Rob Ryan says you need the 3-4 outside linebackers to both generate pressure and a pass rush, if not this defense will fail. Spencer is not a good pass rusher, he is a very average one. Spencer has never had the speed to be a good 3-4 OLB.
Those are the facts and I am not just "hating" on Anthony Spencer here. I am just telling it how it is. Some think Spencer is going to just come out of nowhere and all of a sudden become this dynamic pass rusher. That is not going to happen. Some believe Spencer is soooooo good in the run game and that right there makes him valuable. Being good against the run is important, it's important to set the edge. But a lot of guys can do that and I could care less if I had a dynamic pass rusher that was average against the run.
We are about a month away from seeing what happens with Anthony Spencer. I moved on from him right after the Giants game, so I have prepared myself to move on months ago. Will the Cowboys do the same? This should be an interesting off season.
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Anthony Spencer is the Mike Mamula of the Dallas Cowboys
If he was a third or fourth round draft pick – we would all be pleased with his play…but a first rounder can not be “Almost” Anthony.
It is that simple…Goodbye Anthony…best of luck…
Anthony Spencer is a splash of reality at the sink of life
Time to put our hands under the cold running fawcet…raise a cupped pool of chilly water…and splash…wash our faces, open our eyes and stare into the mirror of something new…
Anthony Spencer is a part of that “We are so talent-laden Barber, Owens, Adam Jones, TNew, Marty B, Marc Columbo crew” that just was never as good as they were touted…
Bye Anthony…bye….and best of luck…
Think about this – Spencer, playing every snap opposite a possible Hall of Fame pass rusher has a season high of 6 sacks…..wow.
You would think
that with Ware constantly getting double teamed and what not there had to be a way for Spencer to get to the quarterback.
by Dezisabeast88 on Feb 14, 2012 8:05 PM CST up reply actions
yeah you would think right
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 14, 2012 8:59 PM CST up reply actions
This is totally a fallacy
as any look at a stats sheet will show you. Playing opposite a dominate pass-rusher does not make the second-best rusher produce more sacks.
Reasons for this may vary. Perhaps defenses are good at finding the best hole in the O-line—and lining up their version of D-Ware there. Perhaps it’s a race—the second-fastest person never gets to the finish line first. Perhaps it’s that one guy hangs back while the other guy charges.
Whatever the case, stats don’t lie. Teams with 2 average rushers may both get about 9. But teams with one great rusher tend to have their second guy only get about 5.
This does NOT mean we can’t do better than Spencer. It does NOT mean that you can’t find that rare combo where two monster rushers both rack up stats.
But it does mean that an average rusher does NOT put up more stats just because he’s opposite a D-Ware. There is no, zero, zilch, nada evidence that you get more sacks when you’re paired up with an elite rusher.
by boyman on Feb 16, 2012 7:11 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I hear you boyman....
if Dware was a 10-12 sack guy every year maybe Spencer would have about 3-4 more a year himself…Ware is a hall of fame player..once in a lifetime pass rusher…Maybe Almost Anthony is just the victim of Got Ya First Ware……
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 16, 2012 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
I don’t think you know what you think you know.
in order to determine whether a dominant pass rusher helps other player’s pass rush, you’d need to do the following:
-look at players who switched from a team without a great pass rusher to a team with a great pass rusher(and vice versa)
-and see how performance varied
you’d need to do that in a methodical manner over a large enough set of players to have a meaningful result.
so you might want to be a little less certain that something that seems logically possible (a great pass rusher frees up other players) isn’t true … unless you’ve done what I’ve described above and i didn’t know about it.
take for example Isreal Idonije … 3.5 sacks, 2.5 sack (Peppers joins CHI), 8 sacks, 4 sacks …
that’s the type of thing you’d have to look at … but you’d have to do it for a huge set of data (say 10 years).
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Feb 16, 2012 6:22 PM CST up reply actions
yup
6 sacks
thanks buddy
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 14, 2012 9:00 PM CST up reply actions
I am with you Chia.
A first rounder needs to be able to produce more than Almost Anthony has. I supported him as much as I could but it just seems he isn’t going to perform better than what we have seen.
But imagine if we had LaMarr Woodley…
I agree
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 14, 2012 8:59 PM CST up reply actions
It's real simple.
People get so caught up in Spencer they think that the people who want to let him go must assume he sucks. That’s not the case. The guy is average. That’s it. He’s good against the run, decent enough against the pass (although I have yet to see statistics prove it either way), and a bad pass rusher in the sense of creating splash plays. Despite rushing against RTs with virtually no help, Spencer generated six sacks last year, three of which were non-pass rushing plays where he was in coverage and tackled a scrambling QB.
To me, as the NFL becomes more of a passing league and Demarcus Ware’s production eventually declines, Spencer is not a guy I would invest significant time or resources in.
This does not mean I think he is the only problem on our defense. We have many. But investing significant resources in a guy like Anthony Spencer is not what good teams intent on building for the long-run do.
In addition, the argument that by releasing Spencer we completely hamper our ability to improve our defense is pretty much bogus. The Texans completely revamped their entire defense in one season by focusing on carpet-bombing their defense in FA and the draft. We should follow their lead and look to upgrade on all three levels of our defense. Spencer, while not horrible, can certainly be upgraded upon and I think everyone realizes this whether they like to admit it or not.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Feb 14, 2012 8:09 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
me and you see eye to eye on this
we have for months
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 14, 2012 8:57 PM CST up reply actions
Yep. The logic is pretty easy to grasp.
But no, here in Dallas we love to resign players to too big of contracts and then complain about it in a year or two when they either regress or don’t improve.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Feb 15, 2012 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
lol
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
The Spencer Defenders
twist the move on from Spencer argument around because it’s the only way their argument about keeping stands up.
We know what we have him. At some point either this year or next year, this team has to find a guy who can be better than him, whether that comes from within or from the draft.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
I'm on the fence with Spencer....
I can see both sides of the story….He is a known commodity that we can trust to do his job rather than having to worry if we have a Jason Williams out there on the edge wondering who has the ball while the running back goes by him…..He is also a player who plays a position that we demand more of in the scheme pass rush wise.
Questin tho…If we are playing a 4-3 under….doesn’t that make Spencer a SOLB in a base 4-3 where his pass rushing isn’t of the biggest concern?…shouldn’t his production be judged right now comparatively to players that play that scheme/position instead of as a Lamarr Woodley?
I have to wonder if Spencer was playing in a pure 3-4 such as Pitt what his numbers would be….I know he can be ugraded as far as he compares vs Ware there was already an article done that shoped that stat wise he is rated as one of the top SOLB in the league.
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 16, 2012 6:03 PM CST up reply actions
No it doesn't make Spencer a SOLB
he’s still our second edge rusher.
If we were a base 4-3, Spencer would be our Left Defensive End.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
with the way we ae referred to as a 4-3 under....
Ware Lissemore Brent Ratliff with Spencer coming of the edge as a “blitzer”…seems to me in that setup Spencer is the SOLB and Ratliff would be our Left defensive end…..course you could have it the other way except more often than not Ware is the one coming off the line instead of dropping into coverage….
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 17, 2012 1:32 AM CST up reply actions
here is how it breaks down:
In the base set you have
OLB-Ware
RDE-Hatcher
NT-Ratliff
LDE-Spears
LOLB-Spencer
as Dallas is seen as a 4-3 under the "front Four is this:
RDE-Ware
RDT-Hatcher
LDT-Ratliff
LDE-Spears
normally on third and long Dallas will take out Spears and move Spencer to the LDE spot(where Spencer gets most of his rushes I imagine)
the issue is that on first and second down you have Spears(who should be playing the DT spot as the LDE with Spencer playing the SOLB spot
that is the biggest problem….which is why I want to get Mario Williams and replace him with Spears….that way he is playing the LDE spot in either the 3-4 or the 4-3 look….this forces the Offense to account(ie double) as many as 3 players…Ware(TE,LT) Ratliff(C,RG) and Williams(RT,TE)
thus Hatcher/Lissemore would be one on one with the LG and and the Offense can only put 3 players out in the Pattern against 7 DB’s which should allow the front Four the time to defeat the blocking….that is how the Giants are able to use create pressure. By forcing teams to pull blockers to create one on ones in the secondary they expose the Offensive line to more one on ones….which the Giants can exploit.
the issue that the Giants have(and Dallas was able to exploit this in the second game is that their DB’s are vulnerable to the quick pass. If Dallas can shore up their Secondary, then that will allow the pass rush a little more time….it is not only the ability but also the threat of the pass rush that creates havoc
with Dallas, Teams know that if we double Ware and Ratliff there isn’t anyone else that can get to the QB quick enough, so they can put more players in the pattern knowing that the secondary will break down before the pass rush gets there. shore up the secondary and that Pass rush looks better, same token get a better pass rusher outside of Ratliff and Ware on the DL and then the secondary looks better
didn’t mean for this to run as long as it did..haha
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 17, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
no worries.....well said
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 18, 2012 2:24 AM CST up reply actions
“The Texans completely revamped their entire defense in one season by focusing on carpet-bombing their defense in FA and the draft.”
It didn’t take them 1 season to revamp that defense. They just drafted a couple guys & signed a couple that put them over the top. They have been focusing on defense for years in the draft & have high to mid 1st round picks.
by Gen_cornrow_wallace on Feb 15, 2012 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
they have been focusing on defense
but they went out this year and gave Wade what he needed, 3-4 OLB Brooks Reed, CB Brandon Harris, CB Jonathan Joseph, 3-4 DE JJ Watt
paired with what they already had
3-4 OLB Connor Barwin, 3-4 DE/OLB Mario Williams, 3-4 DE Antonio Smith
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
Dont forget signing Danny Manning at safety....
yes they rebuilt their defense.
by death of the cool on Feb 16, 2012 7:40 AM CST up reply actions
Daniel Manning is also really good
when injury free
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 17, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
They changed systems
and added Jonathan Joseph, JJ Watt, Brooks Reed in FA and the first two rounds. All three players were great down the stretch and that is how they went from one of the worst defenses in 2010 to one of the best in 2011.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Don't forget
They already had Connor Barwin, Mario Williams, Antonio Smith, Bryan Cushing, DeMeco Ryans & Brice McCain.
They added 3 players (Watt, Reed, & Joseph) that pushed them over the edge. All I’m saying is that revamping their D was a multi-year project. And I don’t think we can revamp our D in a single off-season. I think it would take 2 years at a minimum.
And they could run a 3-4 or 4-3 cuz they got the talent to be successful with either scheme.
by Gen_cornrow_wallace on Feb 15, 2012 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
In 2010, despite all those players you mentioned, they were the 30th ranked defense in the NFL by yards.
In 2011, after adding Wade Phillips and the three players you mentioned, they were the 2nd ranked defense in the NFL by yards.
Why can’t Dallas hit three home-runs and turn this defense around? I mean, if Bruce Carter works out, that’s one already that doesn’t even limit us in FA or the draft.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Barwin played in 1 game in 2010, he suffered a season-ending ankle injury in the 1st game of the year. DeMeco Ryans played in 6 games all year, Mario played hurt all season & missed the final 3 I believe. Cushing was suspended the first 4 & wasn’t the same for most of the year.
My only point is that they already had a really good core group of players that took them a few years & a lot of attention to put together.
And 3 home runs is possible, but you really think this defense is 3 players away from having a Houston type turnaround next year? I think we need more than 3 upgrades on D & we have to address the O-line in FA/draft as well.
by Gen_cornrow_wallace on Feb 16, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
Mario missed like the last 10 or 11.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 16, 2012 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
mario played 2010
with a sports hernia…went to IR the last 3 games once the Texans were completely out of the playoff picture…
he played 5 games then went to IR this year with a torn pec(iirc)….
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 16, 2012 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
Ah miss read it. I was thinking 2011.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 16, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
np
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 17, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
Three is more than enough in my mind.
Especially since you aren’t including the fact that we may in fact see some improvement in house. Guys like Bruce Carter, Sean Lissemore, and Victor Butler could very well provide enough in-house improvement to supplement three home run additions for the defense.
Regardless, even if we don’t get a Houston-type turnaround and only improve to around #10 or so, I don’t think anyone would argue that that wouldn’t be worth pursuing.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
They also added Danny Manning....
That is 4 of the 11 starters (36% of the defense)
That is a pretty large change in 1 year.
by death of the cool on Feb 16, 2012 7:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Revamping the D
With the cowboys having a good deal of cap space next year (possibly top 3), if we draft well on D this year and next year in addition to us being able to go out and sign FA next year; We could have this thing lookin good in 2 yrs. D Ware will be 31 at the start of 2012. We gotta do something now.
+1
when you think it’s only gonna take one off season, you rush things and take risks you shouldn’t take
by somebodyquiet on Feb 17, 2012 1:30 AM CST up reply actions
helps your numbers when you go from defending Peyton Manning twice a year to Curtis Painter....
somehow I don’t think they had to worry so much about the point spread those games….
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 16, 2012 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
also Peyton Manning
didn’t play Houston this year. AFC South had the worst QBs in the NFL outside of Schaub. Who is in Jacksonville, Indianapolis, and Tennesse?
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 17, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
Tennesse, the Colts and Jacksonville all got worse at QB in 2011 and they weren’t very good (outside of Peyton) in 2010
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 17, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
doesnt Spencer play strong side against the LT?
Despite rushing against RTs with virtually no help, Spencer generated six sacks last year, three of which were non-pass rushing plays where he was in coverage and tackled a scrambling QB.
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
not really
Spencer plays against the right tackle most of the time
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
DeMarcus Ware takes on the LT and Spencer takes on the RT
Ware rushes the QB’s blindside, which the LT protects (for a right handed QB).
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
Yeah if they hit him with the tag, our hopes for the offseasons is over
Another season of trying to upgrade the cheap way
Billion dollar dream and hundred dollar nightmares
lol
My own personal opinions and views on Anthony Spencer have not been positive, but I will truly attempt to keep a biased opinion on Spencer.
I think you mean UNbiased there Chia.
Anyway I agree with you, Spencer isn’t worth all that money. A lot of teams will be interested in him so its unlikely for him to take a one year 4-5 million dollar deal. I think the Cowboys know that so they’re considering franchising him so we draft a player and have him ready by next year to start in his place. If it was my call I’d roll the dice with Butler, Albright, and a rookie. Who knows? Austin stepped in and played out of his mind when he got his first start so hopefully Butler can do the same.
"People don't really understand the light that I bring and just kind of shine on my teammates."
-Actual DeSean Jackson quote
by CaliCowboysFan92 on Feb 14, 2012 8:36 PM CST reply actions
Upshaw would be better rusher
just as good against the run and much cheaper enabling us to spend free agent money on the secondary and O-line.
by ziggy19 on Feb 14, 2012 9:13 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
honestly
thats what I see with Upshaw, I think he is similar but i just think he will be the better pass rusher and player
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 14, 2012 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
+1
Upshaw will be a really good player
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
I agree
he has Spencer like qualities but I think his upside and ceiling are way higher
Spencer is a 5th year player with 6 sacks a year
I think Upshaw could get 6-8 his first two years and settle in around 10-12 average for the rest of his career
he is great against the run and is a good pass rusher
I am all aboard with taking Upshaw
he is a smart player from a well coached program
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Can you comment on the benefit the individual player on Sabin's Alabama team had
from playing with the other talented players on that squad. In other words was Upshaw helped by playing with Hightower, Chapman, Barron, Lester, Dre, etc., to the extent that he might be overrated? That of course applies to all of these guys, who certainly benefited individually by playing together.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
by pfloyd1 on Feb 16, 2012 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
not in my opinion
I think everyone on that Bama D is legit
they were highly recruited high school players, each one of them was the MAN at their high school
the only one who I think is overrated is Lester
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 7:36 PM CST up reply actions
Chia
Which defense in your opinion was better, the 2000-2002 Miami Hurricanes, or the 2009-2011 Alabama Crimson Tide?
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
wow
gotta go with the Canes, serious talent there
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
Not even close.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 17, 2012 8:10 AM CST up reply actions
Yup the Canes
Tag Team name for Sean Lee and Bruce Carter is RUSH HOUR
by Rohpuri on Feb 17, 2012 10:48 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Upshaw
What if we take him at 14 and he becomes Spencer 2.0
than I will admit that I was wrong five years from now
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 7:36 PM CST up reply actions
Lol
Spoken like a true east coast guy
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
well
Spencer got five years, so why cant Upshaw?
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
and if he outproduces Spencer
I’ll admit it as well.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
I admit where I am wrong and I am wrong about Upshaw I will admit it
I was DEAD wrong about Ryan Kerrigan and Adrian Claybourn
which is odd because I really liked Claybourn in 2009, I just didn’t like his 2010 tape
Kerrigan, I thought he was Spencer 2,0, I was wrong, really really wrong
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
I think
I read this on the Bucs site, that Clayborn was forced to play more of a two gap system his senior year. I can’t vouch for this personally but it would explain why he had so much trouble his senior year.
I think Iowa changed DC’s in between Clayborn’s junior and Senior years(not sure just what I have heard)
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 17, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
well
I LOVED him his junior year, hated him his senior year
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 17, 2012 7:00 PM CST up reply actions
As soon as I heard about
his lack of effort on plays, I gave up defending him. Yes, there are arguments to keep him, but I won’t be sad at all to see him go. He should bring us a decent compensatory pick too so that’s even more reason to let him go.
Even if we get someone as late as the third round, they should have enough talent to get 4 sacks (at least) and be solid in the running game. Yes, the 4 sacks would be a little worse than Spencer, but we’d have hope that they will improve and they’d be a heck of a lot cheaper (which will allow us to look for additional alternatives).
If we could get a guy like Shae McClellin in the third, that would be awesome, but I think he’ll move into the second.
idk how we get a comp pick for Spencer
considering we are supposed to be spenders in FA this year
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 14, 2012 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
Well, true enough...
I guess “supposed to be spenders” is the key. We’ll see who we bring in and I’ll believe the “spenders” part when I see it…it’s been too long since we’ve seen it (done right at least). But yeah, I didn’t think about our pick ups effecting that. Good point.
by The Trenches on Feb 14, 2012 9:56 PM CST up reply actions
Chia, nice post. Rec'd
I agree with everything you said.
What also makes this pick come off like a bust, in my eyes at least, is when you look what transpired:
1) After trading up to #26, Dallas had its choice of LaMarr Woodley and Anthony Spencer, we all know they took Spencer. Had we kept the 36th pick, we still would have had our choice of Spencer or Woodley, who the Steelers #46 overall.
2) Philadelphia made out like gang busters. First they used the #36 on Kevin Kolb, then this past off-season, they traded Kevin Kolb to Arizona for Dominique Rodgers Cromartie and Arizona’s 2012 2nd round pick!
Not only did we pass up on Woodley, but also enabled the Eagles to improve themselves in the process. Had we just stayed put, we might have still ended up with Spencer, but the Eagles wouldn’t have gotten anything out of it in the process.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
yes
it hurts deeply
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 3:47 AM CST up reply actions
Btw, guys
I did a 6 round Dallas Cowboys mock draft using Mocking The Draft’s 6 Rounder from Monday as my template. Please comment and rec if you like.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
I saw it
I liked it
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 3:48 AM CST up reply actions
but…I agree he has never performed at the level…he was picked at ….and I would let him walk if the demand is too high…but it causes a few more problems this year in the draft and FA options …so it boils down to which sacrifice are ya willing to make in the long run?
The problem with this thinking....
Spencer is a free agent, and at this point we have a hole at OLB. We are not creating the hole.
What the Cowboys need to decide is what is the best way to fill these multiple holes. I can’t imagine spending 8 mil on Spencer is the best option.
Sign two players to longterm deals (CB, S, NT, G) that you really like and have faith in with that 8 million, and draft Upshaw.
You just filled 3 holes for 1 Anthony Spencer.
by death of the cool on Feb 16, 2012 7:47 AM CST up reply actions
“Having faith” and signing players to long term deals is what got us in this cap situation in the first place with all this dead money. (See Guroude, Roy Williams, Leanard Davis, Barber, etc…)
What happens when two years down the line those players you sign underperform or just aren’t wanted anymore? It doesn’t make sense to sign players to long term contracts just to avoid paying spencer. Tag Spencer. With the tag we have 0 committment to him or anybody else after this year. Plus next year without all the dead money we should be top 3 or 4 in the league in cap space after the season.
The Cowboys already have two Anthony Spencers’ one of them is named Victor Butler.
It is why we need DE help.
I think Victor Butler could be better than Spencer
Also, DE help would be mitigated by drafting a true NT and sliding Rat to one of the DE spots, maybe on Spencer’s side.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
a real DE would really help...but if the CB situation is not addressed early...
against spread offenses it will be a 60 play for 20+ yards season type scenario…and usually those end in touchdowns …and im guessing at that but …if they cover better the sacks will happen…IMO
Butler will never be better than Spencer
If we draft a 300 lb. true NT in 2nd or 3rd rd, move ratliff to De, and can somehow keep spencer; that along with maybe a CB or pass rushing DE in 1st rd instantly upgrades this defense.
Spencer has had 5yrs to show his talent.
Time to move on. He is a jag and no amount of money thrown at him will change that. More than willing to run with Butler and coach up the run support side of his game. If the draft allows the Cowboys a shot at a pass rusher go for it.
well that is my point
he has had 5 years to show us
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 8:16 AM CST up reply actions
Time to move on?
Once you let Spencer go what will you say when the Cowboys drop from 7th in the NFL for stopping the run down to the bottom third? This guy finished 4th (out of 11+) on the team with tackles! You replace him with Butler we’re in bad shape!
I am not replacing him with just Butler
I am replacing him with a high draft pick and Butler
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 7:37 PM CST up reply actions
The Giants were worse than us in stopping the run and they just won the freaking SB
Stopping the run is an overrated statistic.
The Colts had statistically the worst run defense in 2006, and won the SB.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
the giants also had the worst rushing attack
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Feb 16, 2012 8:05 PM CST up reply actions
What good did Anthony Spencer's run defense do for us
When:
1) The Eagles tore our defense up for ~300 yards in 2 games?
2) When the Giants RBs gained over 200 yards against us in 2 games?
3) When the Cardinals ran for over 100 yards against us?
4) When Fred Jackson and Marshawn Lynch combined for 250+ rushing yards against us in back to back weeks?
From the first Eagles game to the end of the Bills game: McCoy gained 185, Lynch gained 142, Jackson gained 114. The team went 2-1 in that stretch, but what impact did Anthony Spencer have in those games? For those three games, Spencer totaled 7 tackles, 1 sack, and 1 tackle for loss.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
THE 3-4 HASN'T WORKED IN DALLAS.
It’s time to move on from that defense. Dallas can’t draft the right players for it. We have spent the better part of 8 years trying to stock it and come up short. Dallas doesn’t have the brains to project college de’s to olb. 1 hit with Ware doesn’t make up for all the misses. We don’t have 3-4 linemen. Rat isn’t a true nt and gets punished.
Time to move on. Time to return to the 4-3. It’s easier to draft 4-3 linemen because there isn’t so much projection involved. The 3-4 in Dallas has been round peg square hole syndrome since it began.
Trade up and get Coples and lets get on our merry way. Trade Austin and 5th or a 4th if need be. We need to get a real d in Dallas.
It ain’t hard.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
you know where I stand on the 3-4 vs 4-3
what bothers me is that you are right, we have been in this defense since Parcells was here, so whats that, a decade?
at one point we had Ware Ratliff Canty Spencer, which I loved, but ever since Canty left, I have not dug this 3-4
we have had all this time and we haven’t stocked up on 3-4 talent
I guess give it one more year, but once Ware starts tailing off, this D is screwed
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 8:18 AM CST up reply actions
Chia supposedly the Cowboys are interested in Calais Campbell.
I would take him over Coples all day. If he is the splash fa over Nicks I am fine with that too. The 3-4 de crop is not that good this year. This would truly allow us to go bpa and really fortify our d. I love Nicks but I think signing Campbell and drafting another guard is better.
Campbell is better by a mile over Coples. Coples is just the best of the lot in this draft. That said we could draft Ingram and put him on Campbell’s side and I would actually be excited about this d.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 15, 2012 6:30 PM CST up reply actions
where did you hear that?
because everything I have read reports the Cardinals will franchise him if they can’t work out a deal
say we signed one free agent outside of our own, I would jump for joy if it were Campbell
loved him at the U, loved him in Arizona, would love him in big D
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
I read it at a different site than this one.
Teams really don’t want to franchise players if they can help it. De’s cost a lot of money.
I would so prefer him over Coples. Pair him with Ingram on the left side and bam the d is significantly better.
Try this Chia with the first 3 picks contingent we sign Campbell…….
Ingram
Minnefield/Gilmore
Ta’amu
How sweet would that be ?
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 16, 2012 7:40 AM CST up reply actions
I would be absolutely thrilled
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
crazy thought....
what if we franchise Spencer, Cards franchise Campbell…..team work out a trade/switch?….prob never happen but everybody would be happy…Cards need an OLD to pair with Ocho and they rid themselves of the high priced Calais….we get Campbell and avoid having to keep Spencer around for more moeny than everybody thinks he is worth….I know never happen but just a brainstorm thought….
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 16, 2012 6:12 PM CST up reply actions
never will happen
but it would be odd
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 7:37 PM CST up reply actions
That would be an insane offseason/draft.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Creasy if that happens or something close...
it would be the most excited I have been about Dallas since the 90’s.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 16, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
Mensa, I'd love that draft if it happened
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
I have a better chance at Kate Middleton than the Cowboys have of getting Campbell.
He is not going anywhere. Mario Williams is not going anywhere ,
and I don’t think Cliff Avril is going anywhere either.
by Jonathan Stern on Feb 16, 2012 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
Spencer is not worth the money
move on from him
This
The Cowboys also selected the wrong player. In my own personal opinion, Anthony Spencer was the wrong player selected by the Dallas Cowboys. I felt that Michigan’s LaMarr Woodley would have been a better fit for the 3-4 defense we still run to this day.
I was right there with you back in 2007, I wanted Woodley to be a Cowboy but nope didn’t happen.
Hey Washington... D.C. stands for Dallas Cowboys
Jerry the GM…if we could only find a way to get rid of that guy…
Twitter: @silva918
I wanted Woodley
because I watched a straight beast every time I saw Michigan play, #56 was a monster and had pass rushing speed
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
I watch all the Michigan games
he was a 4-3 DE but his speed I knew he could be 3-4 OLB with awesome pass rushing skill set.
Hey Washington... D.C. stands for Dallas Cowboys
Jerry the GM…if we could only find a way to get rid of that guy…
Twitter: @silva918
I'm starting to think on Victor Butler
He’s big enough, and is going in to his 3rd year. What do you think he can do as a starter? If Dallas was good at developing young talent, then Victor Butler would be just about ready to go as our OLB
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 15, 2012 10:01 AM CST reply actions
I love Victor Butler
I really like that kid, i hated that entire 2009 draft, but he was the only player I said, wow maybe we got something there
he can rush the passer and he is really physical, he has that mean streak to his game that I love
can he be a starter? I have no idea because the Cowboys barely use him and I haven’t seen enough of him to grade him out there
apparently he would be bad against the run because of his size and lack of strength, but as a pass rusher, I think Butler is the 2nd best on this team
I would love for Butler to get a chance to start, as long as they drafted a backup plan like a Chandler Jones, Whitney Mercilus, Jonathan Massaqoui
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
he's like 6'2 250lbs
he’s not much smaller than Anthony Spencer as it is. Besides we can be a little worse vs the run if we’re better vs the Pass — Dallas doesn’t really need the very best run defending OLB in the league
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 15, 2012 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
I agree
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
compared to
James Harrison 6-0 242, Von Miller 6-3 245 and Elvis Dumervil 5-11 260, Butler can start for us
by dcsince77 on Feb 15, 2012 2:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Dumervil hurts...
he’s also the reason Dallas will prob never draft Ingram….they like their OLB’s tall….can you imagine Dumervil paired with Ware?……we had the chance but Elvis didn’t fit the mold that Parcells liked in his LB’s….
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 16, 2012 6:15 PM CST up reply actions
Denver tried the "Elvis as OLB"
Elvis is a 4-3 DE(as much as I hate that term) while he is a very good one, he didn’t transition well for some reason
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 17, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
he's stil listed at OLB in the Denver depth chart as well as DE.....
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 18, 2012 2:26 AM CST up reply actions
According to his tweets
He’s been doing MMA training and also has been working with Tyron.
Hey Washington... D.C. stands for Dallas Cowboys
Jerry the GM…if we could only find a way to get rid of that guy…
Twitter: @silva918
Keep Spencer
If you switch Spencer for Butler the teams suffers. Butler is only asked to come in on third and longs whereas spencer is an every down OLB. I’m pretty sure Butler’s pass rush would also decline after being on the field for first and second down. That leaves you with bad run support and the same mediocre pass rush.
I would love for Butler to get a chance to start, as long as they drafted a backup plan like a Chandler Jones, Whitney Mercilus, Jonathan Massaqoui
Bingo .This is a good year to take advantage of this
by Jonathan Stern on Feb 15, 2012 7:28 PM CST up reply actions
yes
if they draft a OLB and have a position battle with Butler, that is my ideal situation
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 8:41 PM CST up reply actions
exactly
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 7:37 PM CST up reply actions
Spencer is good against the run..
But we don’t really need that from him. That is more of a luxury than a necessity in todays NFL. We need another pass rushing specialist… Period! Ware accounts for almost 50% of our sacks every year. That has to stop
by dcsince77 on Feb 15, 2012 10:19 AM CST via mobile reply actions
lol I know
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Don't let Best get in the way of Better
That what all this Lamar Woodley kvetching reminds me of. We didn’t pick Woodley, no amount of whinging is going to change it, so what purpose does constantly bringing it up serve?
From some of the analysis I’ve seen, Spencer actually grades out pretty competitively with the rest of similarly situated OLB’s – but because he’s not the best in the game right now he’s hot garbage – a phrase that was actually used in a comment when he lead the team in tackles against NE, I believe. Expectations are so unrealistic.
Agree completely that franchising Spencer is a desperation move, but how else would you describe a Defense that needs immediate improvement in at least 2 CB spots, at S, along the DL, with an untested Starter penciled in at ILB to boot?
You want hot garbage – tell me how much fun watching Butler/Albright getting pancaked or pushed downfield with regularity will be. I want a CB in FA and in the Draft, same with Interior OL. And we need to retain our FA FB/3rd WR. Not too much room at the Inn after that. I would rather fix the blowouts than the leaky tire – I don’t have the luxury of preventing fires when I’m up to my ass in flames right now. Identifying the problem is the first step, assigning priorities right after, then selecing alternatives the last. After my woeful secondary, lame pass rush, and squishy interior OL, I am all for replacing our less-than-stellar OLB.
'I have wasted Time and Time doth waste me'
Jerry Jones as Richard II - Act 5, Scene 5
by tdships on Feb 15, 2012 10:54 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
well I think I called him hot garbage more than once on here
this is what I have been saying
if we move on from Spencer draft Ingram or Upshaw, or Mercilus Chandler Jones Curry Massaquoi
I would enjoy watching one of those draft picks and Butler be our hot garbage at OLB
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
I said this in my article
I am not expecting the best in the game, I expect consistency and a better pass rusher
you cannot have a guy look great the first 4 weeks of the year, disappear the next 8, show up for one game and then disappear the last 4 weeks of the season
there are times I totally forget Spencer is on the defense because he disappears for weeks at a time
I just want more consistency considering 3-4 OLB’s are supposed to be pass rushers
if we played a 4-3, Spencer’s ability against the run and lack of speed as a pass rusher wouldnt bother me because he would be great as a 4-3 player in my opinion
its been 5 years, I am ready to move on, he is an average player who will never play at the all pro level he did in 2009
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
Once again, here is an example of a Spencer supporter completely misinterpreting an argument
but because he’s not the best in the game right now he’s hot garbage
This is not the argument against Spencer. Not even at all. Chia didn’t say in the article that Spencer is terrible and none of the commenters have either. Instead, people say we need to move on from an average player at best, and somehow you think that we are calling him “hot garbage.” That’s a pretty convenient interpretation and certainly changes the argument.
The fact is that Spencer is average. He is likely going to command an above-average contract. That is the simplified case against Spencer. The complex argument against him is that he does not fit the mold of defender we should be pursuing as the NFL transitions to a passing league and D-Ware begins to decline.
Neither of these arguments say Spencer is hot garbage.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Its about as relevant as the Woodley whining
And the overall point is – we have much greater Needs/Priorities. Why create a new one ?
The critical issue – Dallas Defense sucks. Primarily because our talent in the secondary and along the DL is Below Average – and that’s being generous. What’s the wisdom in replacing someone who is at least Average instead of someone who is clearly inferior?
'I have wasted Time and Time doth waste me'
Jerry Jones as Richard II - Act 5, Scene 5
by tdships on Feb 15, 2012 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree that the Dallas defense has talent issues
but I vehemently disagree with the notion that creating one more hole at OLB limits us from improving DL and DB. In free agency, we have the money to buy a corner better than Newman and a front seven players that can make some sort of impact (could be as impactful as Mario or under the radar as Jason Jones). In the draft there are plenty of opportunities to add pass-rushing help at OLB/DE and secondary help at S/CB. You could, in all, have five or six shots at improving this defense if you don’t get sucked into splurging on the O-line again. Using one of those shots on an OLB who can provide pass rush once Ware declines and actually do something in the nickel seems like an intelligent investment to me.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Money is the main issue with keeping Spencer, IMO. He's not worth franchising.
We truly will need someone to replace him if he goes, otherwise, we do create, if not a hole, a serious depth problem.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
There is nothing
to say that you can’t franchise him and sign him to a more cap friendly deal later. Like it or not Spencer is the most important FA on the team and people need to start figuring that out for the good of the team and not anyone’s little personal biases.
thank you
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
the argument is that since Spencer isn't putting up 10-12 sacks a year he's inconsistent and a horrible pass rusher...
he’s consistently a 5-6 sack guy right now in our scheme….you put Lamarr Woodley in our scheme who is to say that he wouldn’t also be a 5-6 sack player….You go to play with what you have…not with what you wish for…to constantly compare one player in a completely different scheme with another is pointless…how many times have we seen a free agent who showed promise on one team bomb becuz of chemistry or scheme incompatibility. I have to agree with tdships that with Spencer we have a nice known commodity but to inviest a franchise tag on him would be a waste. OCC did a nice article about Spencer if I remember that had the numbers he has posted compared to others at his position. Spencer actually graded out at the top playing across from a hall of fame player….he’s not a weakness in the defense for teams to attck however he does get exploited by speedier backs and TE’s in coverage…..can we do better than him from what we have on the roster right now?..probrably not.. we have no idea how much increased reps will effect Butlers pass rushing, and if he can hold up in the running game. If we increase our coverage and Spencer is able to use that extra second to get to the CB then the weakness of our defense will be plugged…I for one am all for drafting a replacement/depth player at OLB as thos year is full of possibilities…
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 16, 2012 6:25 PM CST up reply actions
no way you franchise a player like Spencer & even if took less $ it wont help this defense much
i rather roll with Butler, Albright & a draft pick over Spencer even at $5 or $6 million. Butlers did some pretty good things with few snaps & i like to see him given a real chance to prove what he can do.
no need staying put when theres potential players on the roster with expericnce & its time for all positions to earn there spot. Romo, Ware & Witten are the only players that really dont need to compete for a starting job. competetion makes all the players better & those that cant keep up probably dont need to be there anyway
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
Rather role with Butler??
If Butler was really that good we wouldn’t even be entertaining the idea of keeping Spencer. Anybody would do good things if they were always playing fresh and in a limited role. We all saw what happend to Marion the Barbarian when he took over the backfield “full-time”. We could draft some help and replace Spencer by committee, then use the saved 8M and upgrade different spots thru FA.
on defense i'm taking quality pass rushers & DBs that have ballskills
putting pressure on the QB & having Eli is what took the Giants to the super bowl. A.Smith almost took the 49ers to the super bowl so having Romo with a dominate pas rush would instantly make this team a contender.
if you cant move the top 10 QBs off there mark then it wont matter whos playing CB or Safety. a solid OL with Romo, Murray, Dez & Witten should be more then enough core players & players like Austin, Robinsion, felix, Phillips can all be a huge plus.
find a FA Center & allow Callahan to get a couple of these young OL coached up
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
Spencer has never had the speed to be a good 3-4 OLB.
Yet he has a better 40 time than Woodey. Perhaps he doesn’t have the ‘explosion’ that Woodley has? 6" more vertical and 5" more on the broad indicate that Woodley would be the more ‘dynamic’ player. Why would our scouts value an extra inch in height over these other disparate measurables?
Wade and the Scouts probably felt "Spencer looked more like a football player"
It’s the same reasoning they used when they drafted Jason Williams in 2009.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
they also judged Spencer on the interviews with the OT's from that draft.
from what I understand almost all the OT’s from that year coming out said that Spencer was the best pass rusher they faced…..
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 16, 2012 6:28 PM CST up reply actions
That's why LaMarr Woodley was the better player in college?
Woodley and Spencer played in the same conference for crying out loud.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
so in most of the publications for the draft Woodley was the better player but rated lower than Spencer out of spite?
you loved Woodley great…you hate the fact we missed on him, but almost every single draft guru out there and publication had Spencer rated higher than Woodley but becuz you say he was the better player in college that makes it so…..hop in a time machine and lets see what Spencer would do in Pitt in their 3-4 as opposed to ours…I would honestly have preferred Dumervil over Woodley but you have to live with what you have instead of crying over missed opportunities…..
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 17, 2012 1:27 AM CST up reply actions
The statistics show that Woodley was the better player
Woodley was also the more decorated all-american, award finalist guy. Spencer was none of those.
Tag Team name for Sean Lee and Bruce Carter is RUSH HOUR
by Rohpuri on Feb 17, 2012 10:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
looking back, its really hard to understand how Dallas took Spencer over Woodley.
I guess they thought Spencer projected better to the NFL because Woodley was clearly the better player in college.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Feb 17, 2012 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
What's worse is they traded back into the first round to draft him.
Then stuck with him. I so hate the 3-4 in Dallas. Way too many mistakes trying to draft for it. It has been a huge fail.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 17, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
yessir
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 17, 2012 7:01 PM CST up reply actions
I dont understand it
I am not a NFL scout, but I knew Woodley was the right pick
man that bugs me
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 17, 2012 7:01 PM CST up reply actions
Chia Had they kept their forst pick....
they could have drafted Bowe and then Jerry wouldn’t have traded for Roy Williams. What one mis judgement has cost this team. It’s been devastating.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 17, 2012 9:47 PM CST up reply actions
first pick
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 17, 2012 9:47 PM CST up reply actions
You know what else sucks about Spencer
Philly used the pick we gave them and flipped that pick ultimately into Rodgers Cromartie + Arizona’s 2012 2nd rd pick.
Tag Team name for Sean Lee and Bruce Carter is RUSH HOUR
awesome
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 17, 2012 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
yeah
the ripple effect
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 17, 2012 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
Yes I don't know if speed is relevant. Acceleration and burst are what separate the two.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
speed is important for a WR on a deep route or a RB who wants to take it to the house...
explosion from a stance and quickness from what I gather are the most important stats for a DE/DT/3-4 OLB to have…..thats what makes waiting for this darn combine so hard……want to see how the numbers from the combine match up with expectations for some of these players that are getting talked about so much…
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 16, 2012 6:30 PM CST up reply actions
that vertical jump is important for pass rushers
Spencer just looks slow as dirt to me coming off the line, so when I say slow I am not talking about his 40 time or whatever
my eyes just tell me he looks slow
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 7:39 PM CST up reply actions
Chia
You’re correct: Woodley had a 38 1/2 Vertical Jump; Spencer had a 32 1/2 Vertical Jump.
The problem was Woodley didn’t work out at the combine because of his hamstring. Spencer worked out. I’m guessing the Cowboys decided not to send their scouts to Woodley’s pro day where he worked out.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
the problem was
they have a thing against smaller players
quick, name one undersized player besides Ratliff and Butler on our team
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
Dwayne Harris, 5'10
would be the one guy I can name off the top of my head.
You’re correct about the small guys. This is why I feel Ingram may not be the pick if he’s on the board at 14. I think they’re more likely to go with Curry for that reason.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
touche
I forgot about him
speaking of Harris, a guy I really like actually, they NEVER draft WR"s under 6’1
and I mean never
I have wanted a speedster/slot guy since Terry Glenn and they just don’t draft smaller WR"s, they don’t sign them either
the typical Cowboys WR is 6’2 200 something, look at all of our WR’s and they are the same size and build
the only shifty slot speed types they have actually shown interest was Jacoby Ford in 2010, who I was drooling over and they liked someone else in 2009 2011 I just forget who else
but if we could draft a speed guy like Brandon Banks, Jacoby Ford, Mike Wallace ( I know he is bigger but we passed on him like three times 2009) this offense would be insane
plus we need a kick returner, though Dwayne Harris looks like he can do it if he gets one block, he has good vision
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 11:40 PM CST up reply actions
Draft Wallace and we don't need Dez. There is the problem with Jerry in a nutshell.
We could have used that first for Dez on another position of need. Wallace was also cheaper because he was chosen later in the draft. He is a lot faster than Dez too.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 17, 2012 8:14 AM CST up reply actions
I would still have taken Dez
I am a big Dez fan, but idk why we passed on Mike Wallace three times
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 17, 2012 9:55 AM CST up reply actions
Who is the Dallas gm ?
All you need to know. Jerry wanted an Irvin clone.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 17, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
Dez is my favorite player mensa
that’s my boy, so its takes a lot for me to hate on Dez
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 17, 2012 7:02 PM CST up reply actions
Chia make no mistake I love Dez's talent.
However had Jerry played this correctly we wouldn’t have needed Dez.
However right now….Wallace is a nuke. He can kill you anywhere on the field.
Check this Chia……draft Bowe in the Spencer draft take Wallace 2 years later. Ya I would love that. We could have fortified other positions and only 1 first round pick would have been used on wr. As opposed to two first and a third and a sixth. This is why I loathe Jerry. All those picks for one player and no safties, no o linemen until last year within the first two rounds.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 17, 2012 9:53 PM CST up reply actions
yeah I know
but Dez was my favorite player in college during his run at OSU, so that was a dream come true for me on draft night
easily the best draft experience I have ever had
all time low for me as a Cowboys fan, easily the 2006 draft when my guy Santonio Holmes and my pet cat Antonio Cromartie were just sitting there for us and we take Barbie, that was the worst moment I ever had, I broke my remote
all time low was when the Knicks had a top ten pick and
landing Steph Curry a few years ago almost happened, that still upsets me to this day
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 17, 2012 10:55 PM CST up reply actions
Well Chia I have to go back in time ......
for my ultimate draft selection……Tony Dorsett.
In bb Hakeem the Dream. I won’t lie. I hated Patrick Ewing like I hate Jerry. Hated georgetown. I love the Houston Cougars and Phi Slamma Jamma. The most talented team to never win a title.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 18, 2012 12:35 AM CST up reply actions
Dorsett
a tad bit before my time
I think my dad’s favorite draft moment was Roger Staubach, that was his idol growing up
then he loved him some Troy Aikman
Bill Bates was a player he really appreciated too, and Novacheck
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 18, 2012 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
Creasy the 10 yard split is most important to me.
At olb quick is better than fast.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 17, 2012 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
10 yard split is a underrated one
nobody talks about that but it is very important to get up the field quick
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 17, 2012 10:56 PM CST up reply actions
Hard to find an upgrade over Spencer though,
I did a little digging and other than Woodley the only other LOLB that is above Spencer in sacks is Ahmad Brooks from the 49ers and he only got 1 more sack then Spencer in the last 3 years and that was this year that he finished with 7 sacks (with a better line, ILB’s and DB’s).
If we are expecting Woodley type production it’s not happening, he’s a rare talent and it sucks that we didn’t get him (especially since we could have, but hindsight is 20/20), and Almost Anthony is pretty much the next best thing out there at the moment. Do I think we should franchise him, no, but I think he is worth keeping around for the right price. Although even at the right price he would probably prefer to go somewhere else.
I know we want more consistency and production, but look around the league and you will see that every team is and it is hard to find at his position. There is no one in the league even close to what Woodley is producing and after Brooks and Spencer there is not much of anything other than teams that would love to have someone like Spencer replace their JAG. If we are upset that we didn’t get Woodley fine, but be glad we at least have pretty much the next best thing. Remember there is only one Ware and one Woodley, yes would’ve been great if we had them both (wow imagine that), but we have been fortunate to have had Spencers services considering the alternatives.
In short be careful what you wish for you just might get it. I really hope Butler can take up the slack though.
Ahmad Brooks looks like Anthony Spencer's twin brother separated at birth
I’d rather draft Anthony Spencer’s replacement using the BPA approach than go out and spend FA $ on Anthony Spencer’s carbon copy.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
This is Spencer in a nutshell:
Spencer: 32 1/2 inch vertical and loads of missed sacks
Woodley: 38 1/2 inch vertical and he gets there
Woodley is more explosive
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
Butler has almost the exact same measurables as Spencer
so don’t look to Vert to see if Butler can improve on Spencer’s pass rush
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 15, 2012 5:06 PM CST up reply actions
Spencer V.S. Butler
Spencer = 6’3" 257
Butler = 6’2" 248
1 inch and 9 pounds
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 7:39 PM CST up reply actions
similar 3 cones and 20 yard shuttles too
I think Spencer and Butler are equivelant. Albright has more speed and power all in all, but he barely has the 3 Cone drill to qualify as a speed rusher and lacks the Vertical leap of a great power rusher. His Broad Jump (albright’s) says he has a lot of power though. Albright is the best chance to get a real dynamic player already on the roster. If he can stay injury free I think he can get between 9-11 sacks a year
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 17, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
Albright 9-11 sacks a year?
I like Albright but man idk about that
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 17, 2012 7:03 PM CST up reply actions
I wish someone would do an objective post on Spencer’s statistics.
we had one ridiculously biased post, by someone that was wrong about Spencer, that compared Spencer to a bunch of players would either (a) missed half the season or (b) split time.
can someone please do a post that looks at:
a) sacks per game (which corrects for missing games) and
b) looks at the combined production if teams used multiple players (e.g. maybin/thomas, Koa Misi/Taylor, Barwin/Reed/Williams, etc, etc).
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Feb 15, 2012 5:48 PM CST reply actions
I am not really a stats guy
but I would be open to an article like that
why don’t you write an article like that? you use stats more frequently than I do, you would be perfect for it
If I could find the resources for that information, I would write the article, any tips?
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 15, 2012 6:30 PM CST up reply actions
Start with this.
Just take every team and compile the sacks data for: #1 rusher and #2 rusher.
You have a gmail account right? You can put the data in a google spreadsheet document.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Feb 16, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq_pzudn-VEDdC1nMmg4elZsUmhicWU2MXBabWxqYVE
here you go. guys with * I know either were (i) situational or (ii) only played part of the season.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Feb 16, 2012 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
that’s 17 teams with at least 2 guys with more sacks than Spencer.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Feb 16, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
final comment.
you know it’s a weak argument when people are resorting to narrower and narrower definitions. Hey, Spencer may be tied for 49th in sacks … but let’s not look at THAT. Let’s only look at the 2nd best pass rusher on teams that play the 3-4! Or maybe we should only look at the 2nd best pass rusher on teams that play the 3-4 that are from Purdue. If we just measure it that way Spencer is 2nd best in the NFL!
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Feb 16, 2012 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
Whenever I see people here going beyond the usual Cowboys homerism to praise a player, it is usually because of some college football rooting interest
For example, Roy Williams and the Longhorns or MArty B and A&M, but I don’t get this one. I guess the overlap of Cowboys fans and Boilermaker alumni is greater than I would have guessed
Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
I would love to show you the finer points to a muay thai clinch whipped knee to the face seanrude
by matt575 on Nov 22, 2011 3:09 AM EST
thanks bro
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 7:39 PM CST up reply actions
good work FiTaT
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
no gmail account yet
I am gonna set one up
thanks for the tip
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 7:39 PM CST up reply actions
Spencer plays opposite Ware. He ought to get 8 to 10 sacks a season.
The other important thing to consider is that Butler might be just as good.
by Jonathan Stern on Feb 15, 2012 7:27 PM CST up reply actions
It's a tough call
The only guy really better than Spencer on opening day would be Mario Williams in FA.He wants to be the highest paid defensive player and has started 5 games in a 3-4.I don’t think we are going that route with how much Ware is paid.I think the franchise tag is too much in salary but the reality is it’s only about 3 mil more than a long term contract and you can say goodbye to him next year.I would still want to draft an OLB in the first 2 rds.If we let Spencer walk then we would probably need to draft Upshaw or Ingram in the first rd.We could do that and sign a FA like Ahmad Brooks or Manny Lawson for a cheaper rate for insurance.We could use a 3 man rotation at OLB to keep them all fresh and beef up the pass rush.Letting Spencer walk and just drafting a rookie to fill that spot could make us worse there for the first 6-8 games of the season.It usually takes a rookie a full year to convert.Upshaw would probably be the most ready to play.If Butler could consistently handle the run then he would be an option.He’s started 1 game in his career.He looks just like a situation pass rusher.
LaMarr Woodley is better than Anthony Spencer, get your facts straight
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
Lol who cares
we are talking about non-time-machine options for Dallas, get real.
To bash Anthony you have to make several leaps of logic:
1) You have to think that TFL’s and playing against the run are totally irrelevant.
2) You have to pretend that Spencer’s 5-6 sacks don’t count as much as the 5-6 sacks that lots of other teams get from their second-best rusher.
3) You have to pretend that rushing opposite a dominate rusher means you get more sacks—although no statistical evidence backs this up.
4) You have to pretend that some rookie we pick up in the first or even second round (after all, lots of people think the BPA at 14 will be a guard or CB) is going to be able to surpass Spencer—when it is far too likely that they won’t even match his “average” play.
5) You have to pretend that we can sign the only better option (Williams) despite him not matching our defense and being too expensive—we can’t afford Ware AND another highest-paid rusher unless we’re going to not pay anyone else at any other position.
6) You have to pretend that the people writing checks around the league are stupid in spending money, and that somebody’s going to offer Spencer $8 million when “we” know that he’s only worth $4 million.
This is not about defending an average player. This is about trying to inject reality into a position where everyone thinks they know better than the professionals, without bothering to check some basic facts and the consequences of actions.
by boyman on Feb 16, 2012 7:20 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
You have to pretend that Spencer’s 5-6 sacks don’t count as much as the 5-6 sacks that lots of other teams get from their second-best rusher.
spencer was tied for 49th in the league with 6 sacks. That suggests there are close to 24 teams (give or take … there are some teams with 3 guys with more sacks) with at least 2 guys who are better than Spencer. Hmmm … what could explain the inconsistency? Maybe you have to pretend that most teams don’t get more than 6 sacks from their 2nd best rusher?
Here’s an exercise. Be rigorous.
1. For every team, who are their top 2 rushers?
2. Adjust for i) games missed and ii) situational substitutions. For example, in Hou the #1 guy is a combo of Williams & Barwin, and the #2 guy is a combo of Barwin/Reed. In Mia, the #1 guy is Wake, the #2 guy is a combo of Misi/Taylor. For the NYJ, the #1 guy is Pace, the #2 guy is a combo of Thomas/Maybin. etc etc.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Feb 16, 2012 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
If you get to blen pass rushers into a total Composite of proiduction shouldnt spencer get to benifit as well.
I.E shouldnt you look at the amalgam of Spencer/Hatcher or Butler?
I remember I said he was tied for 49th in sacks
and I got really hammered by folks for comparing him to all of the pass rushers
but regardless, he is a pass rusher and he was 49th in the league, that is average at best
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 7:43 PM CST up reply actions
yup
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
I got blasted for that
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
People have a hard on for resisting change
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
tough call
If we do let spencer go not only are we not able to boost our d-line at 14, but we can’t help out our o-line or secondary either. Pick 14 automatically becomes a LB pick. Regardless of who the BPA is.
it's simple
The Cowboys have so many holes on defense, it would be nice to keep Spencer, but not if you have to franchise him or over spend to keep him. He’s simply not a difference maker consistently. I believe to generate more consistent pass rush, the Cowboys probably need to focus more resources on the defensive line. Move Ratlif to DE, get a real nose tackle who can collapse the pocket, then find one more end who can rush the passer. Rotate Hatcher and Lissemore to keep the defensive linemen fresh. Then I think you have pressure on the QB. That’s the key to the defense.
Galveston Dave
It is simple
and I think the majority of Cowboys fans agree…if Spencer wants to stay at $4mil/yr (or less) for 1 yr or 5 yrs, we’re ok with that deal getting done (the less yrs, the better although you could spread his cap hit longer). He is an avg OLB and should get avg OLB pay which should be roughly $3-4mil/yr (I’m avg at my job and wish I got $3-4mi/every 10 yrs). One cent more than that and he can walk and we’ll see how Butler can do. I also think we need a CB or 2 way more than a guy to replace Spencer since we do have Butler but we have no servicable CB’s.
Bob Sturm wrote an interesting article on the Spencer situation too...
http://www.foxsportssouthwest….mp;feedID=10194
Phenominal objective article by Bob,
I am by no means a Spencer lover, but the points addressed here are valid.
Comparing Spencer to #1 rushers is lunacy, as Strum sites; we have a guy that does that, his name is Demarcus Ware, and oh by the way he stack up quite well.
In an Ideal Fantasy football world, we would have no1’s at every position, life would be grand, it’s call the non salary cap land, and we don’t live their any more.
You have to look at complimentary linebackers, put him in comparison to other players that play his position.
You don’t Compare Calvin Johnson, and Nate Buleson; and you don’t complain if you have Miles + Dez. Would I love to have 10 sac’s across from ware? Absolutely, is that League standard? is that even in the 15-25% range? No.
Spencer has a role on this team, he is better than a Jag, less great than a superstar, is he worth 8m?
No probably not, but is he worth 5-6 mil? sure, absolutely. People that want to outright get rid of him have an unrealistic understanding of the NFL
kills me. Crappy article with blatant errors.
Kerrigan, Harrison, and Woodley are the only ‘2nd best’ guys with more sacks? that’s news to Ahmad Brooks (7 sacks … who’s actually 3rd on SF to Aldon (14) and Justin Smith (7.5).
Comparing Spencer’s (who played all 16 games) tackle totals with Lamar Woodley’s (who only played 10 games) tackle totals? C’mon, Spencer player 60% more than Woodley. I’d hope he had more tackles.
Etc etc.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Feb 16, 2012 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
No one is saying Spencer is worse than Woodley, At least I am certianly Not.
Justin Smith first off is a 3-4 DE and the best one in the league, so his contribution is irreverent to the Anthony Spencer debate.
We’re their LOLB who produced more sacs than spencer? sure? were their LOLB who played full time, as many snaps, and had as many and or more Sac’s, again yes.
Is that the common place? Hell no.
Pitsburg, Sanfran, Washington, have two rusher’s, Miami, Baltimore, NY (jets), Green Bay dosent, who does?
I count maybe 3 complimentary pass rushers in our scheme.
League wide?
you can include,
Texans, Colts, Denver, and the Giants, so that’s 7 out of 32 that have two great- dominant pass rushers coming from 2 areas, I will bump it up to 8 because I am sure I am going to fast and left off someone.
I agree Dallas needs to Upgrade its pass rush, how could you not? but do i think that spencer blows? Nope? I dont think he’s a problem, and infact can/is a great asset to this defense.
I think if we generate more rush from the Defensive line, Ala SanFran, you’ll see much more production, than you’d see from taking a chance at trying to move on from Spencer.
Going from Marcus Spears to Justin Smith > than Spencer to Woodley or Kerrigan.
Just my opinion.
by Proxy406 on Feb 16, 2012 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The Cowboys got Butler and can use the money given to Spencer to upgrade the DE position.
Go from Keynon Coleman to Jason Jones.
by Jonathan Stern on Feb 16, 2012 5:30 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah I thought the article had a lot of holes as well.
He also didn’t address the fact that there were several players right around Spencer’s production (Reed, Houston) that were rookies and can be expected to improve. As such, he didn’t really look at it from a “who would you rather have right now?” perspective. Seems like a big inconsistency to me.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
I was just mentioning the obvious errors. There’s more subtle stuff … like there were a couple guys who had just as many sacks (Maybin and Reed) in about 1/2 the snaps.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Feb 16, 2012 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
Is Sterminator plugged in with the team? Or is he just a guy with a computer who blogs about the team?
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
Spencer is good
He’s the dirty work player, anyway you look at it, he set he edge and stops the run. That what he’s there for. Yeah we all would like him to have more sacks of course, but if you look at it the tackles for loss are just as big as sacks, it puts teams in a long yardage and keep teams off course. So like this pass season when he got 6 sacks and 8 tackles for loss, not to mention the the dirty work he does that get other player their stats. I’m good with Spencer.
Now with that said I would not put the tag on him. About 4 million a year would probably work.
Billion dollar dream and hundred dollar nightmares
I really cant wait anymore
I want to know what happens with Spencer
I need Doc and Marty McFly
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 10:24 AM CST reply actions
Make sure you're sitting down when you get the news Chia
Cuz I heard Mosley saying the other day they’re seriously considering franchising him.
If we spend $9M on Spencer next year I’ll be so disgusted. JG is supposed to be bringing in a new attitude so what kinda message will that send?
We’re gunna reward mediocrity & “mailing it in” with the highest salary of any player at the position? What a joke.
by Gen_cornrow_wallace on Feb 16, 2012 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
Given our situation
There’s not much more we can do if at the minimum we want to remain an 8-8 team.
I really hope it doesnt happen man
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 7:41 PM CST up reply actions
Where was Spencer's impregnable setting the edge in run support
When this team was getting gashed in a 3 game stretch vs the Eagles, Seahawks and Bills?
Just to rehash: LeSean McCoy ran for 185; Marshawn Lynch ran for 142; Fred Jackson ran for 114.
Anthony Spencer’s total production for those 3 games: 7 tackles, 1 TFL, and 1 sack.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
I am going to buy a hoodie
I Heart Anthony Spencer
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2012 10:22 PM CST up reply actions
as I under stand it
those teams didn’t run to Spencers side alot….I might be wrong though I remember there being more than a few holes created by Ware, Hatcher and Ratliff rushing upfield to get to the QB.
maybe that had something to do with it?
Like I said I can’t prove it(don’t have access to that kind of Data, nor the time/inclination) but just off straight memory that is what I remember
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 17, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
Somewhat off-topic
Any chance you could do write-ups on potential free agents like you do for draft picks. Thanks!
by Beuerleincouldhavebeenbetterthentroy on Feb 17, 2012 12:49 PM CST reply actions
Carr, Nicks , Campbell and Williams.
There ya go.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 17, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
I got some darkhorses mensa
I am just waiting to release them
I got an ace up my sleeve and you will see it soon enough
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 17, 2012 7:04 PM CST up reply actions
Ya me too but in a perfect world dream.....well u get the idea....
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 17, 2012 9:55 PM CST up reply actions
in a perfect world mensa
I am Jerry Jones rich and my summer home in the Hamptons and south of France is parties 24/7 and you are invited
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 17, 2012 10:57 PM CST up reply actions
LMAO.....and Thank you !
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 18, 2012 12:36 AM CST up reply actions
lol
but you have to wear all white to the white party in the Hamptons
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 18, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
yeah
I am got something in the works for that
I got like 3-4 posts in the works but I am waiting to release them
I will let people know when I plan on putting them out
thanks for the idea, already on it
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 17, 2012 7:04 PM CST up reply actions
how would you feel if Kamerion Winbley became available to either fortify our OLB or replace spencer?
talk he could be released by the raiders as they try to clear up cap space…..
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Feb 18, 2012 2:31 AM CST up reply actions
I have always been a fan of Wimbley
but idk if he is a DL or OLB in the 3-4 but I would love to have him, very athletic and fast
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 18, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
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