Cowboys Offseason Plan: Playing GM For A Day, Defensive Edition
by rabblerousr on Feb 20, 2012 11:39 AM CST
in Dallas Cowboys General
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PrintIn part one of this series, I took a global look at the Cowboys roster, highlighting the positions that must be addressed this offseason and, unlike many of the pundits who have been offering offseason plans, noted that I'd be shocked to see a lot of big-ticket free agent signings in Dallas. Rather--and in no small part because both Jason Garrett and Jerry Jones have publicly declared that they'd like to operate this way--I'd expect the team to focus on building through the draft, using free agency to secure stop-gaps who can hold down the fort until they can add long-term "core" players through the draft.
This isn't because I don't want the Cowboys roster to improve, and in a hurry. Rather, I believe firmly that what they must avoid is to fall into the uneven talent-trap that plagued them during the Wade Phillips administration: stars at several positions and average guys at others, all backed up by marginal UDFA types. One way to avoid falling into that hole is to eschew the big-ticket signings that tend to happen during free agency's initial frenzy.
We have learned that Dallas is likely to have about 20 million dollars in cap room to spend towards upgrading the roster. At first glance this seems like quite a lot. But if we look at the reserves other teams have amassed, the Cowboys savings account looks a lot less impressive. ESPN's John Clayton recently published a partial list of 2012 salary cap numbers. It looks like a good year to be a free agent: the Kansas City Chiefs top the list at $62.995 million, followed by Tampa Bay with $60.496 million, and Cincy with $60 million. Some other numbers of note: Denver, $50.735 million; Washington, $47.56 million; Jacksonville, $45 million.
As Clayton notes, there will be about $711 million of cap space league-wide, which averages out to $22.2 million per team. So, not only will the Cowboys will come in below the league average in terms of cap space (even after cutting Terence Newman), but with so many other teams having so much money to play with, the top FAs, guys like Mario Williams and Brent Grimes, are sure to get huge, top-of-the-market deals. Dallas simply won't be able to compete, at least not for the handful of players who have been on blast at ESPN since the clock expired on Super Bowl XVI.
Make the jump...
As a result, I think they will proceed more or less as they did late last summer, sans the Nnamdi Asomugha extravaganza, letting the market come to them and getting reasonable bargains. The goal in free agency will be to set the team up in order to avoid having to draft for need in April. On Friday, I attempted to lay out an offensive plan of attack that took that goal plan into consideration. Today, I'll do the same with the defensive side of the ball.
Let's begin, as we did on Friday, by revisiting our handy-dandy positional needs chart. Any roster spots that were manned last year by guys who are currently free agents (and thus not officially on the roster), I've left open (marking them with a "????"):
| Starter | Backup | Third String | |
|---|---|---|---|
| LDE | Kenyon Coleman | Sean Lissemore | |
| NT | Jay Ratliff | Josh Brent | |
| RDE | Marcus Spears | Jason Hatcher | Clifton Geathers |
| LOLB | ???? | Victor Butler | |
| LILB | ???? | Bruce Carter | |
| RILB | Sean Lee | ???? | Orie Lemon |
| ROLB | DeMarcus Ware | Alex Albright | |
| LCB | **Terence Newman | Orlando Scandrick | |
| SS | ???? | Barry Church | |
| FS | Gerald Sensabaugh | Danny McCray | |
| RCB | Mike Jenkins | ???? | Mario Butler |
What might we do with this information? Let's try to address this step by step, starting with the defensive line and working our way to the secondary:
1. Jerry Jones likes his defensive line. As the Senior Bowl, much to the astonishment of Cowboys fans, he told reporters, "our defensive front is one of the strengths of our team." In looking at the above chart, however, we can see why he'd utter such blasphemy. Compared to the shambles that is the back seven (er, eight), the DL is quite settled. Of course, this is one of those "In the kingdom of the blind..." situations. Considering how much work needs to be done at linebacker and in the secondary, it's hard to believe that there will be a major DL overhaul, unless a terrific DL falls to them in the draft--a rarity, given how highly defensive linemen, especially pass rushers, are valued.
2. Rumors have circulated about plans to move Jay Ratliff to end. Every offseason, Cowboys fans clamor for the Cowboys undersized nose guard to move out to end, and are treated to the same rebuttal: his quickness and strength are a mismatch for centers, who tend to be the smallest players (and worst athletes) on the offensive line. Why move him out to end, where he'll have to battle mammoth tackles with great feet? This year, we may get an answer, as Ratliff seems to be getting worn down inside by constant double-teams: his sack totals have declined each year since 2008, although his pressures and tackles have remained more or less the same.
3. They only have one sure-fire, reliable ILB on the roster. The contracts of aging veterans Keith Brooking and Bradie James have expired, leaving the Cowboys with one solid roster piece, Sean Lee, and a bunch of questions. Is super-athlete Bruce Carter ready to start after logging only 41 defensive snaps? Is Orie Lemon (zero snaps) anything more than a camp body? Other than cornerback, this is the position at which we'll see the most new faces...unless they decide to re-up ether Brooking or James, a known quantity to help them through the rebuilding process.
4. Anthony Spencer won't be easy to replace. Sure, it's easy to bash Anthony Spencer for not being DeMarcus Ware, and I have done so on many occasions. Since the season's close, however, several writers whose work I admire greatly have made compelling arguments that Spencer has not been the problem. The first of these was by our own Kegbearer, in his "Anthony Spencer Challenge." He offered a healthy dose of perspective, noting that, in 2011, Spencer led all LOLB in tackles, forced fumbles, and tackles for a loss, and was in the top 5 in sacks and tied for second in QB hits. More recently, Bob Sturm penned an excellent piece in which he dished out many of the same statistical comparisons, concluding:
In fantasy football, you acquire "pass rush specialists" at every spot an think you will get 100 sacks. But, in real football, if you don't have a player setting the edge and shutting down strong side rushing plays, then you get beat. Spencer, of all outside linebackers in the 3-4 in the last two seasons has more tackles than anyone.
Indeed, Spencer has excelled at a lot of the unglamorous work required of his position: setting the edge, being stout against the run, etc. And when it comes to rushing the quarterback, the only strong side OLBs who can boast better numbers are Lamaar Woodley and Clay Matthews, neither of whom are available. So, before they just dump # 93 out of frustration, it's important to consider who would fill his spot--and to contemplate how steep the dropoff might be.
5. Terence Newman has suited up as a Cowboy for the last time. Although none of the Cowboys brass has come out and said it, I think it's safe to say that T-New's career in Dallas has run its course. As many of our members have pointed out, he was very good for much of his career; when he was healthy, he was capable of making some astonishingly athletic plays (recall him running down Randy Moss, who had a big lead, when the Cowboys visited Oakland in 2005). But age and injuries have taken their toll, and he has been a shell of his former self in the past two seasons--especially late in the year. He is now a liability and the Cowboys must move on. Good night, sweet prince...
6. Rob Ryan has been scouting defensive backs. Another sound bite that emerged from Senior Bowl week is that Ryan was "only looking at DBs. Nothing else. DBs." This should come as no surprise, of course. But it's pretty clear that the organization's top offseason priority is to engineer a talent infusion into the defensive backfield. If they do indeed release Newman and his bloated contract, Dallas will be left with only two corners, Jenkins and Scandrick, and three safeties, Sensabaugh, Church, and McCray. Most teams carry roughly five CBs and five safeties; if the Cowboys follow this model, they will need as many as five new defensive backs. That's a lot; no wonder Ryan has been scouring the college ranks.
The good news--and I know many of you will disagree with this--is that Dallas doesn't need to find a starting corner. Jenkins and Scandrick can start in 2012 (as many have noted, Scandrick is being paid like a starter), so the Cowboys aren't chained to need at the position, which would likely result either in an expensive free agent purchase or a frenzied reach for a CB in the draft's early rounds. As far as DBs are concerned, the Cowboys can let the draft come to them.
Given this, how would I proceed If I were playing GM? Extrapolating from the above evidence, I'd do something like this:
Franchise Spencer: This is a brutal choice, and it dictates the rest of my offseason plans, as his 8.8 million franchise tag significantly limits what I can spend at other positions. But I feel strongly that good pass defense depends more on good line play than good secondary play (see: Giants playoff runs) The Cowboys pass rush is already average; without Spencer, it will be anemic and I fear that, no matter how many elite cover guys they bring in, it won't matter because opposing signal callers will routinely have six seconds to throw.
Yes, the Cowboys could let Spencer walk and then target a first-round talent like Melvin Ingram or Courtney Upshaw to take his place, but there's no guarantee the newcomer will be better than Spencer in the long run--and he almost certainly will not be in 2012, as he adjusts to the big boy's game. And, as Bob Sturm sagely notes in his Spencer piece, "I cannot fix this defense by subtracting a reasonable piece while adding another. That is called running in place..." The Cowboys can't get caught up in whether or not Spencer is "worth" franchise money. Let's be clear: he's not. They have to focus on what their defense will look like without him. It's a terrifying prospect, frankly. So, they have to keep him around until somebody who is clearly as good (or better) is on board.
Re-sign Bradie James or another veteran ILB to a short-term deal at the veteran minimum: As noted above, they Cowboys have a startling lack of depth at ILB. Since Carter is a question mark and Sean Lee has been a bit injury prone, can they afford to fill the back-up spots with rookies or UDFA types? I don't think so, and propose to bring back the athletically limited but highly dependable veteran James as insurance. He's a smart player, a hard worker, and a good locker room guy. If he comes cheap, it'll be money well spent--even if he doesn't play a down.
Acquire a FA cornerback: Since Dallas will need as many as three corners, depending on whether or not they think Mario Butler can serve as the fourth or fifth guy, they'll have to exploit as many avenues as possible to get them. Since the two guys they have on board can potentially start, they don't need to break the bank to get a Cortland Finnegan type, but another veteran would be a welcome addition. Remember that they prefer their corners to be size/ speed athletes, so we should strike quick, smallish guys form the list. A couple of possibilities might be the Saints' Tracy Porter, who they liked a lot coming out of college, or Green Bay's Patrick Lee.
Move Jay Ratlif to defensive end: I have been one of the loudest proponents of keeping number 90 at nose tackle, where I think he enjoys the most noticeable advantage. But this move is less about Ratliff and more about the overall state of the defensive line. Simply put, Dallas needs to get more rush from its defensive ends, and Ratliff's the best pass rusher on their DL. Consider: if the Cowboys aren't going to get much interior pressure with Ratliff double-teamed, why not let somebody else absorb that and see what he can do as a defensive end knifing inside, shooting the tackle-guard gap? Both Josh Brent and Sean Lissemore have shown a bit of upside, and deserve more playing time. Conversely, we have seen the ceiling for Kenyon Coleman and Marcus Spears--and it ain't too high. One way to get the young'uns some more snaps is to move the guy in front of them, Ratliff, to the position manned by the middling vets. It's a simple matter of talent distribution, really. And, what would you rather have: a couple of young guys who could get better, or the known quantities who won't?
Draft a player who can be groomed as Spencer's replacement: Franchising Spencer is only a one year band-aid, so to take that route necessitates that his replacement be brought into the fold. There are pass rushing OLBs available in the draft in the first couple of rounds. If they pass on the likes of Alabama's Courtney Upshaw in round one, a fellow such as West Virginia's Bruce Irvin might be available in the second (or perhaps even the third). The key is that, by franchising # 93, the Cowboys aren't forced to take an OLB in round one, thus potentially missing out on a player with a higher grade.
Draft at least one cornerback in rounds 1-3: Luckily for Dallas, the 2012 draft is rich in cornerbacks; good players can be found throughout the first three rounds. From BCS guys like Dre Kirkpatrick to small school players with NFL tool kits like Montana's Trumaine Johnson, there will be a veritable smorgasbord of CB talent. The Cowboys need to sidle up to the feed trough, and then come back for seconds.
Sign a free agent safety to a one-year or low-impact deal: on the other hand, the cupboard for 2012's safety class is relatively bare. There is only one sure-fire first rounder, Alabama's Mark Barron; after him there are a couple of solid guys, but no Eric Barrys or Earl Thomases, plug-and-play week one starters. If they draft a safety, it will most likely be a developmental guy. So, in the meantime, they'll need a serviceable vet to man the open safety position. We know new defensive backs coach Jerome Henderson loves Abram Elam, so it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Elam brought back on a short-term or low-dollar deal.
In addition, it wouldn't surprise me to see Dallas go after a nose tackle, either in free agency or the draft. If they can secure a huge 340 pound type, then Sean Lissemore can join Ratliff at end, thus giving Dallas a significant pass rush upgrade at the position, with Hatcher, Lissemore and Ratliff supplanting Coleman (who would probably be cut) and Spears, who would become the designated run-stuffer.
What do you think, BTBers? I know some of these choices are controversial, so go to the comments section and let 'er rip!
In the final installment, we'll look at the overall plan and speculate more specifically on what targets might be in Dallas' sights.
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wow . seriously
that’s your plan for the defense .. seems like somebody has been drinking from jerry’s koolaid again
i pray to the gods above that your plan doesn’t come to fruition
talk a recipe for disaster . wow
the recipe for disaster has already been brewed
What this plan does is get the Cowboys out from underneath it as practically as possible.
by rabblerousr on Feb 20, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Not happening this year
I think Garret has things planned out another couple years. It will take more than one draft at this point. One injury and this team becomes deeply flawed.
MacGruber!
I hope we cab get a good back up QB
If Romo goes down for a significant amount of time we’re done. (Knock on wood)
Hey Washington... D.C. stands for Dallas Cowboys
Jerry the GM…if we could only find a way to get rid of that guy…
Twitter: @silva918
Agreed Rabble,we have ben doing it the other way for a while now and it hasn't worked out to well for us.
I want a SB now,but that is not how it works.You have to build through good drafting and a mix of FAs that don’t break the bank.I also agree about Spencer,not about how good or bad he is ,that this defense would be in real trouble if we lost him.
After reading both pieces,I think we are on the same page as to what the team will do this off-season. Best way to get this team back in the big game imho.
Tony Romo,Sean Lee,and DeMarcus Ware-Leaders by example!!!
by NVCowboy4Life on Feb 20, 2012 4:38 PM CST up reply actions
What's your plan?
It’s really easy to criticize this plan, but I would like to see you come up with a better plan. Cowboys defense has a lot of holes, and one off season cannot fix them all. 20 million in cap space really isn’t that much. We have needs at pass rusher, interior oline, and in our secondary. We only have so much cap space and so many draft picks. I think you have to try to plug as many holes as possible with in free agency. It doesn’t make sense to try to make one big splash when we have so many holes
Yes Hank,I think that is our plan.
During the season we be as competitive as we can be while bringing the team along. Who knows,maybe we can get some of that magic going at the right time and make a play-off run ourselves!!!
Tony Romo,Sean Lee,and DeMarcus Ware-Leaders by example!!!
by NVCowboy4Life on Feb 20, 2012 4:42 PM CST up reply actions
What the hell are you talking about?
"He’s the boomstick, you know what I mean?" -Ian Kinsler
First
Use FA to get a center or guard, get one Cb or safety, tag spencer then work a reduced deal sign b james and m holland to one year deals, and get one more dl. These are bands aids and second tier free agents. Then attack the draft with bpa!!!!
mMr$
by ssgcizzle82 on Feb 20, 2012 11:54 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Well if this is it "exactly",
then lets’s just let the fans know that this is the first of 4-5 years of rebuilding. “These are band-aids…” So you are hoping, no praying, that BPA is going to be the long term answer. LONG TERM. I ask you, have the Cowboys shown any kind of expertise in the last 15 years in developing talent? SuperBowl talent? To build through BPA requires you have the leadership and coaching able to do it. The Cowboys don’t. Like it or not, JG is still out. Again, you are hoping he will be another Bellichick. I seriously, seriously, doubt that he is. And you still have JJ in the Office. This plan is not nearly aggressive enough. I say give Ryan the best secondary money can buy this year, (FA), hold onto Spencer if the $ are right and draft a first round G/C. That’s this year. Next year we stiffen the O-line more (FA) and pickup LB’s and a QB. We just might cut a break and get into the postgame in 2014 before Romo joins the pro golfing tour.
"Hope is not a strategy" Billy Beane
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones
Cowboys shown any kind of expertise in the last 15 years in developing talent?
Yes.
There's always money in the banana stand.
But not even close to enough.
"Hope is not a strategy" Billy Beane
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones
The most successful teams are built primarily through the draft.
Snyder has demonstrated the futility of attempting to buy a championship through free agency.
Like JG said, use FA to fill needs. That frees the team to draft the best players available on their board when they’re on the clock rather than being forced to take inferior players simply to fill holes that weren’t addressed during FA.
And to do that we need new leadership and better coaches.
"Hope is not a strategy" Billy Beane
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones
We have 3 players that made the all rookie team this year
from our 2011 draft class (Smith, Murray & Bailey). Nagy showed potential, and we still don’t even know what we have in our 2nd and 4th rounders (Carter and Arkin).
You wanna replace Garrett after one year?
Give him credit, he’s hired a few new coaches for this year. And for him to give Callahan some OC duties! JG is at least willing to evaluate himself, something I was concerned he may not do. Garrett won’t be Belicheck, but hopefully he will make a name for himself.
"He’s the boomstick, you know what I mean?" -Ian Kinsler
Yes
fire all coaches every 2 years! That’s how you win in the NFL!
//sarcasm off
There's always money in the banana stand.
No, but you start with the right head coach, like you start with the right QB.
And you will get your wish. Garrett is here to save the team and lead us to greatness. Hey, look at at all the great playcalling last year. Cost us 2-4 games. So Garrett’s our guy, JJ is in charge of player selection and we’ll go 8-8 next year. Like I said yesterday, this team with this staff is 4-5 years away, IF YOU THROW IN LOTS OF LUCK.
"Hope is not a strategy" Billy Beane
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones
What HC do you want?
And what QB?
This is all very vague. It’s actually kind of laughable. Nobody knows what HC is going to be the next great, they only know who out there is good now. Twenty years ago, everyone wanted the next Jimmy Johson. Ten years ago, everyone wanted the next Bill Parcells. Five years ago, everyone wanted the next Bill Belicheck. Not everyone wants the next Harbaugh. And meanwhile, what coach won the super bowl? An ancient disciplinarian who was left for dead last year.
Get a smart HC and have some continuity with him. There’s no magic bullet. See if the Niners do anything in the next five years. I’m guessing they’re regress to the mean.
There's always money in the banana stand.
Announcing that we're rebuilding would be incredibly dumb
We all know that JG is rebuilding and providing Dallas the vision (and check on Jerry) that’s been lacking for years (hopefully, but there’s no reason to doubt it). Announcing that we’re rebuilding is terrible for morale. Giving up right out of the gate on the next few seasons is not what I want the owner/HC/ or anyone associated with the Cowboys to do.
"How 'Bout them Cowboys!"---Jimmy Johnson
"...and the Cowboys...STUN the Bills!"--ESPN MNF
But,in fact, it is exactly what RR is suggesting we do.
Doesn’t matter whether you use the word or not, rebuilding is what the plan is. And fans have a “right” to know what level of expectation they can assume. It’s their money. If after it’s apparent (acknowledged or otherwise) that the team is in rebuild mode, fans still want to believe they are going to the SB every year, that’s their fantasy. Your qoute,
“We all know that JG is rebuilding…” clearly shows you agree with me. So if you want to keep it a “secret” go ahead.
4-5 years, that is the only thing important in this discussion.
"Hope is not a strategy" Billy Beane
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones
a "right" to know what to expect is just not possible.
THe Cowboys were 12:1 odds to win the Super Bowl in 2010 and we all know what happened. So are you just not going to watch for 4 years? Plus, every team is rebuilding in a sense whether it’s reloading thru the draft, replacing retired players…etc. I guess I just don’t understand the label you’re trying to apply and why it’s important to communicate it to the public. Unless Cowboys management has a plan to tank the next season, I don’t think we have a right to know anything about predictions of success because they don’t know anyway how well the team will do.
"How 'Bout them Cowboys!"---Jimmy Johnson
"...and the Cowboys...STUN the Bills!"--ESPN MNF
In speaking of right to know, I was referring to RR's plan.
I think, to complete his blueprint for the future, he should just add the statement that this is a 4-5 year re-building, re-tooling reality. I didn’t mean to say to alert the press. It was meant for fans of this site. But I was then reminded by you that all BTB fans know we are re-building anyway. No, I would never expect JJ to use the word re-building. That would cut into ticket sales.
"Hope is not a strategy" Billy Beane
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones
As far as watching the games next season and beyond
the answer is of course. I’m 40 years in and I’m not going to change teams now. Besides, for me the best part of the team is watching the excellent playmaking of certain players. Win or lose, that is always gratifying to see.
"Hope is not a strategy" Billy Beane
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones
Great read. Valid reasoning.
But I don’t agree with the Spencer tagging. I know its just 1 year and it eliminates a hole but..
1- it conflicts with what u said earlier about J&Js philosophy of smart, value moves.
2- the reason tagging Spenc is a bad decision is cuz you can’t make a bad sign (or tag), know its bad, then say its the RIGHT decision. Whether it 1 year or not, whether he’s on the roster or not, you don’t overpay or talent… Especially when you spend the previous paragraph explaining financial mindfulness.
3-If Spencer isn’t worth it, and conflicts with the new philosophy, than heed your own wisdom and draft a replacement, or find a better value.
4- Don’t tell me tagging a guy for 8mil to be a bandaid and drafting a younger guy for the future makes sense. If the Boys were 40mil under, its acceptable, but not for us.
He's good, but he's no Danny White!
by Shaymer on Feb 20, 2012 5:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Wonder how much Mario Williams will be...
Probably worth the same price but would kill us in years.
"He’s the boomstick, you know what I mean?" -Ian Kinsler
well it really depends on the cap in a few years
most pundits are anticipating the cap to go up north of 150 million in the next few years, so you could conceivably back load the contracts…
once the cap expands what seemed like a cap killing figure could be seen as cap friendly in as few as two -three years…..
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 21, 2012 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
20 mil should be enough to sign 2 high end FA's. But not enough to also Tag Spencer. So we should...
Sign one high end FA O-Lineman
Draft one high end(1-3rd round) O-Lineman
Sign one high end FA Cornerback
Draft one high end(1-3rd round) Cornerback/Safety
This gives us 2 NEW STARTERS on both sides of the ball. That’s 4 positions of NEED fixed. And we still have one (1st-3rd) pick in the draft to go BPA on Offense or Defense. Carpet bomb Defense with your two 4th’s and your 5,6,&7th. Or we could also use the non comp 4th and our 6th &/or 7th to move back up into the 3rd to try and grab an additional starter.
Through Free Agency and the Draft if everything went right we could possibly grab 6 NEW STARTERS. That would go a long way towards fixing this team.
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 20, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
"IF everything goes right"! I hear what your saying,but the smallest word has the biggest impact. IF.
Tony Romo,Sean Lee,and DeMarcus Ware-Leaders by example!!!
by NVCowboy4Life on Feb 20, 2012 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
The problem with a big splash, let alone 2 is the math doesn't work...
If you have $20 million, and $5 million goes to the rookie pool:
Tier 1 CB will cost you a minimum of $8 million and a tier 1 O lineman will cost you a minimum of $6 million. Now you have committed $19 million and haven’t signed Laurent Robinson, not to mention the cabinet is rather bare at ILB, G & safety, especially since there probably aren’t many safeties who can start on day 1.
That just doesn’t seem to be logical.
You might be right.
But as rebuttal evidence may I present the Stanford Routt contract:
3yr / 19mil.
This guy could’ve been our #2 CB this season. That’s only 6mil/yr for a starting CB. We need 2 new CB’s THIS season: 1-starter and 1-back-up to ditch the Walker/Ball experiment. Hopefully Mario Butler is our #5.
Surely there is another comparable player to Routt out there? You’d still have 17mil to sign someone on the O-line(C/G), plus your draft picks + departing FA’s.(Fiametta, Bennett, Robinson)
Given we wont be able to Tag Spencer under this scenario. But SJ has proven there are ways to manipulate the cap, and who would have better knowlede of he future implication of it’s framework than the Jones’.
Or do you still think I’m smoking the Homer peace-pipe?
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 21, 2012 1:04 AM CST up reply actions
Tagging Spencer at nealry 9 mil is idiotic
Draft his replacement or be aggressive in FA is the answer. Time to move on from him. This DL needs an injection of youth and change for it to be any better next year.
Just proof that our owner needs a juice box and a long nap
Or he’s confused and is thinking he’s watching the 1992 Cowboys. Our defensive line, excluding Rat, is awful.
I will awaken my expectations for the Cowboys when Jerry Jones is in the ground.
There is just something about the image
of JJ sucking a juice box that I find pee-in-my-pants funny.
"Hope is not a strategy" Billy Beane
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones
clean up on isle 1
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
by TARHEEL PAUL on Feb 20, 2012 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
Juice Box
infused with high octance vodka
Lissemore and Hatcher are far from awful
And Brent showed some real potential to develop last season as well.
I disagree..
Lissemore and Hatcher both had very good years. And Kenyon Coleman had a good year. Spears was weak, though.
Correct me if Im wrong
But I’m not so sure if we can franchise Spencer and sign all of the other stop gags that we need to sign not to mention signing all of out draft picks.
Hey Washington... D.C. stands for Dallas Cowboys
Jerry the GM…if we could only find a way to get rid of that guy…
Twitter: @silva918
they could well franchise him but then
sign him to a longer term, cap friendly contract. Or not—we’ll have to see what the market is like.
That Is My Expectation
franchise Spencer, then entice him with some up front cash to sign a longer term deal that would bring down the one year cap number. Spencer is Okay; he is just not worth the move up price Dallas paid to go get him at the bottom of round one.
I can live with that
He's good, but he's no Danny White!
by Shaymer on Feb 20, 2012 5:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Depends on how expensive these "stop gags" are.
There's always money in the banana stand.
Your making me think practically.
I can see what you are saying. My only question is when we take our draft pool money and Spencer’s money from our cap, that leaves us about 6 million to sign all the players on both sides of the ball. I don’t see how we can do that.
by BluegrassCowboy on Feb 20, 2012 12:01 PM CST reply actions
It should leave about 9-10 million.
Which means that the rest of the guys will have to be brought on board on the cheap.
by rabblerousr on Feb 20, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
Well considering route just signed his deal with kc
Its wouldn’t sulfide me if we can get a very good fa corner for what we are paying Newman right now. Less than 20 million for 3 years that’s good for us. Sets the market kinda low. And Carr will be.looking for a home.now.too so we could catch him around 40 million for 6 years that’s only about 7 million off the cap if we can get Spencer for roughly 4 a year that would leave us with enough for a good center and a stop gap Saftey. Route signing was exactly what Dallas needed thank god it wasn’t for 9 million a year we would have been screwed.
by Sado44 on Feb 20, 2012 3:21 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Carr and Finnegan are probably wanting similar deals.
Close to or exceeding J Josephs 5yr/49mil.
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 20, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
Tracy Porter
and that level of CB is where we will be shopping
He who laughs last, thinks slowest
The Weather is here, I wish you were beautiful"
Indecision, may or may not be my problem
Yep
Porter they can likely just afford (the good/#2 CB range not the $10 mil/yr guys) and they liked him in the draft 4 yrs back so makes sense. He’s a bit like Spencer in that he seemed poised to make a jump to the next level then settled back into being “just” a solid guy.
by DB23 on Feb 20, 2012 4:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
That's fine by me.
He would be an upgrade over trying to roll with Scandrick as our #2 CB.
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 20, 2012 6:33 PM CST up reply actions
Well said, my friend.
He's good, but he's no Danny White!
by Shaymer on Feb 20, 2012 5:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Last year's defense
Proved that signing guys ‘on the cheap’ SUCKS!
Lol.
He's good, but he's no Danny White!
by Shaymer on Feb 20, 2012 5:55 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
No it proved that missing on players in the draft sucks.
There's always money in the banana stand.
Pretty much agree
Key points-
A reasonably decent FA corner is needed… We have no depth there…
I would not draft a corner in the first 3 rounds though. I have repeatedly heard about the depth of corner talent lasting into the 4th and 5th rounds. Draft a couple DBs past the 3rd but the first three rounds should be about the trenches.
Pass rush…. Oline…
And yes it looks like we have to bring back Brady James as insurance. What happens if Lee gets injured and Carter is a bust? Yeeesh!
MacGruber!
yeah I think there is a chance James sticks 1 more year, Dallas has no other ILBs
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 20, 2012 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
especially if he’s hurt
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 20, 2012 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
that's funny
Every time Jerry drafts an injured prospect, Ware and Witten cry a little.
He's good, but he's no Danny White!
by Shaymer on Feb 20, 2012 6:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
James sucks and needs to go
Why would you keep a guy who cant even play as a nickel LB because he cant cover? Just like Spencer, time to move on…
I'd prefer a FA.
We need 3 ILB regardless of Lee’s health or Carter’s progress. I think we could find an upgrade to James at a reasonable price through free agency. That being said, bringing James back probably wouldn’t kill them.
I would bring James back but only as a back up
Hey Washington... D.C. stands for Dallas Cowboys
Jerry the GM…if we could only find a way to get rid of that guy…
Twitter: @silva918
If they bring him back
it’ll be as the third guy. Which is better than him being the 2nd guy, but not better than him being off the team for someone better. The third LB will get enough snaps to be noticed on the field. So I’d rather we didn’t have him.
He was pretty solid for a 4th rounder, though. I don’t mean to disrespect the guy, but I think he’s done.
what about Erin Henderson
how much is he likely to command in FA
by DCB* on Feb 20, 2012 3:57 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
that is the same...
Mentality JJ & Company had for the last few years! Wait on a DB and get value in the later rounds. Tell me where has that left the secondary?
"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!
by mho on Feb 20, 2012 2:52 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Mike Jenkins was drafted early.
There's always money in the banana stand.
yep and knowing TNew was declining they selected a CB in the 6 th round last year.
How many CB have they selected since then? Jerry had hired coaches and scouts only looked at the now. He should have been looking forward instead of behind him.
"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!
by mho on Feb 20, 2012 3:45 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I'm just saying we didn't wait on him
We drafted him in the first round. You can’t say that they waited on it when they spent a first rounder on a CB recently. And we took shots with AOA and Josh Thomas. They missed on them.
And for that matter, there aren’t unlimited draft picks. What position should they not have targeted in the first 3 rounds? Pass on Dez? Sean Lee? Tyron Smith? Demarco Murray?
The issue REALLY is that the F.O. comepletely flubbed the 2009 draft. We should have gotten a reliable starter somewhere in there.
There's always money in the banana stand.
so....
Tyron
Bruce Carter
Demarco
would you rather we had a corner than one of them ? Demarco is the one on draft day that most were angry about, but OT and ILB were both “needs”…Columbo was done, and they knew brookings was on his last leg…..i hear what you are saying, but you can not fix everything in one draft or off season……we are paying for years of poor drafting
esp the dreaded 2009 draft
He who laughs last, thinks slowest
The Weather is here, I wish you were beautiful"
Indecision, may or may not be my problem
Good point
He's good, but he's no Danny White!
by Shaymer on Feb 20, 2012 6:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
sensible
have to fill the gaping holes (LB, DB) before upgrading the bleh (DL).
I hope they bring in a plugger to pair with Brent and start both Lissy & Rat at DE—shuffle the deck and hope for the best.
Id like a FA DB who can play both S & CB to give some flexibilty in the draft.
I think Spencer for a year, possibly more, is very likely, for better or worse.
I’ll concede Scandrick is penned in as a starter. I disagree on Spencer — it’s Victor Butler time. Scandrick though is getting paid like a safety not a CB, if Scandrick does play the slot, he’ll be getting paid fairly for it
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 20, 2012 12:08 PM CST reply actions
however I want a very good secordary and that requires at least 3 starter level CBs
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 20, 2012 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Victor Butler=Phil Costa
Costa looked okay in spot duty before 2011. Wen pressed into service, we saw the results.
I fear Butler is in the same mold. He’d be exploited horribly in the run game.
I just don't see how you can say that
When the guy gets his chance he seems to make plays.
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
by TARHEEL PAUL on Feb 20, 2012 1:15 PM CST up reply actions
Butler has shown he can rush the QB
My only concern with Butler is how well he can do against the run on a full time basis.
Hey Washington... D.C. stands for Dallas Cowboys
Jerry the GM…if we could only find a way to get rid of that guy…
Twitter: @silva918
he gets ran at a lot so far when he's on the field and he's held up fine
when he’s on the field and the team has a choice on whether to rush or not, teams rush right at Butler, so he’s tested plenty and held up
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 20, 2012 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
I disagree
He gets subbed in for Ware on early downs and comes in as an extra blitzer on passing downs. So he doesn’t see any strong-side runs really at all.
He might do okay, but he’s smaller, lighter and a less instinctive against the run than Spencer, so there’s a good chance that we could get gashed early and often.
There's always money in the banana stand.
6'3, 257 vs 6'2, 249
Instincts are important, but size is hardly an issue
Couldn't disagree more Rabble
Costa did not look good in spot duty before 2011. Costa gave up 2 sacks in 1.5 games.
People gave him a pass like they always give every Cowboys rookie because obviously all he needed was “an off-season training camp and he’ll be a monster!!!”
In contrast, Victor Butler has had more tackles per defensive snap than the supposed ‘amazing run defender’ Anthony Spencer and twice as many sacks per defensive snap. He’s never been a liability.
Comparing Butler to Costa is as crazy as franchise tagging Spencer.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Feb 20, 2012 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
this is true BED
People gave him a pass like they always give every Cowboys rookie because obviously all he needed was "an off-season training camp and he’ll be a monster!!!"
but tell me, when did Costa get this? during the lockout? or during TC, which is more dedicated to installing plays? When? Ohh he was supposed to workout on his own which tends to be more geared to maintaining rather than improving……yet he still got better, though was still inconsistent, as the season went along…..
How many players actually “got better” last year, compared to the year before?…
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 21, 2012 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
sounds good but
I see them signing Spencer to a 4-5 yr deal instead of franchising him. He’s a stud. Imo.
I don't need a compass to know which way the wind shines....
by hashishkabob on Feb 20, 2012 12:11 PM CST via mobile reply actions
but does he want to sign back with Dallas?
He takes abuse from the fans and the media, I’m not so sure he wants to comeback to Dallas.
Hey Washington... D.C. stands for Dallas Cowboys
Jerry the GM…if we could only find a way to get rid of that guy…
Twitter: @silva918
He take a lot of abuse here
but don’t think he cares.
He's good, but he's no Danny White!
by Shaymer on Feb 20, 2012 6:12 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
After mor thought
I think by tagging Spencer it would totally destroy your plan. Unless there is someway to reduce his tag cost then there is no way we sign even middle of the road FAs at all the open positions you show on your depth chart.
I think as fans we are going to have to write off the 2012 season unless we somehow catch lightning in a bottle. If we take the hit now with Spencer and sign the middle ranked FAs to allow us the time to fill those positions from the draft then we will have something to hope for.
But it looks like to me our year has to be 2013. Hey we have been loosers this long what is one more year if it means the chance to return to our glory days?
by BluegrassCowboy on Feb 20, 2012 12:16 PM CST reply actions
ironically
You spelled ‘loser’ wrong. Lol. But yeah, 2012 scares me. We’ve got big holes and little money.
He's good, but he's no Danny White!
by Shaymer on Feb 20, 2012 6:19 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
why did they pay scandrick so much?
as the article states hes making starter money, but why? he is a great slot corner but not a good matchup with the number 1 and 2 wr.
Because he would have got a lot more if we had let him hit the open market.
And if that happened we really would have been screwed. We would be looking at going into FA with only 1 CB on the roster other than one that had been on the PS.
We never would have had the cap space to be able to sign another CB as good as him, much less for the same price. And then pick up a 3rd CB good enough to be a starter, and a starting LOLB, etc, etc, etc.
How much is the rookie pool money?
I thought the rookie pool was 5 million. Is it less than that?
by BluegrassCowboy on Feb 20, 2012 12:24 PM CST reply actions
since rookie pay scale has dropped i believe rookie salary pool is only like 2 million now
finish the Oline rebuild
by yehti on Feb 20, 2012 4:25 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Doubtful it'll be that low
2011 was the first year the new rookie pay scale rules were used. The Cowboys’ rookie pool in 2011 was $5.7M.
Approximately $2.3M of that $5.7M pool was allocated for Tyron Smith, the #9 overall selection. Unlike last year, Dallas holds the #14 overall pick rather than #9 (for now). Last year the #14 overall pick represented a $1.7M hit on the Rams rookie pool.
While having the #14 overall pick vs the #9 overall pick should lessen to total 2012 Cowboys rookie pool, Dallas will also have an extra supplemental 4th round pick (most likely) that will need to be accounted for as well.
Considering the -$600K difference between the #14 & #9 picks, the extra 4th round pick and a slight increase due to inflation, the Dallas rookie pool will probably be pretty close to the same $5M neighborhood it was last year.
Check out the big brain on brad
Thanks. So after we cut Newman and sign picks, we got about 15mil for FAs, including the Spencer Situation?
He's good, but he's no Danny White!
by Shaymer on Feb 20, 2012 6:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
also bear in mind
that in the CBA it is mandated that Rookies get a 10% increase each year….so take any pick from last year and increase the money by 10%, factor in the comp picks, and you will have the Rookie Pool….
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 21, 2012 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
Reasons to not resign James and/or Brookings as backups
This applies to Newman also.
1. vet minimum for 7-9 years is $825K, for 10 or more years $925K
2. 40 free agent MLBs listed on PFFs list of free agents
3. LB & DB should be your CORE special teams players
Signing these guys for insurance only insures we will continue to suck and continue to hear, “well we tried to sneak so and so onto the practice squad, but…”
I agree totally.
There's always money in the banana stand.
Adam Schefter tweet
Former Oakland CB Stanford Routt reached agreement with the Kansas City Chiefs
Hey Washington... D.C. stands for Dallas Cowboys
Jerry the GM…if we could only find a way to get rid of that guy…
Twitter: @silva918
The Chiefs have a ton of cap space
They can sign both if they want to
Hey Washington... D.C. stands for Dallas Cowboys
Jerry the GM…if we could only find a way to get rid of that guy…
Twitter: @silva918
They still have flowers too right ?
Although you really need 3 corners i guess
He who laughs last, thinks slowest
The Weather is here, I wish you were beautiful"
Indecision, may or may not be my problem
You can't move Rat to DE until you have another stud NT on the roster
Other than Rat, we have nobody currently that can play NT consistently.
In Romo we Trust
I think Lissemore can do what the declining Ratliff did in 2011
by rabblerousr on Feb 20, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
I disagree
Rat is an elite DL and while Lissemore is an up and coming player, he’s no where near the player Rat is.
In Romo we Trust
Rat's still going to be on the line.
So what’s the real difference?
There's always money in the banana stand.
Brent definitely has the size, and has played well enough in limited snaps
ya never know until you try
Brent is too much of an unknown at this point
Much the same way Costa was going into last season.
In Romo we Trust
Brent is still an unkown as a starter at NT
It would be very risky to plug him in as our starting NT without seeing more from him.
In Romo we Trust
with as much help as we need defensively from LB back, I'm not sure we can afford to franchise Spencer
with only $20 mil to play with, over-spending half of it on a journeyman is a scary concept. I totally agree that we may not be able to immediately replace him with a comparable replacement, but for the price, we may have to roll the dice.
I don't disagree. But what are the alternatives?
Plus, they could find a few million more here and there if they need to (by restructuring a contract or two)…
by rabblerousr on Feb 20, 2012 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
honestly, none of the alternatives are pretty. I haven't looked at the available FA linebackers, but even signing a stud isn't a guarantee
if we don’t have the position locked down, that could impact how we draft, which is also not ideal. If Upshaw is sitting there at 14 and we believe that he’s the BPA, then pull the trigger, but drafting to fill a hole isn’t a viable long term strategy, and I don’t think Garrett would go that route anyways- it just doesn’t fit his philosophy of talent acquisition. Even given that, there’s little chance he would be an immediate upgrade anyways. Any FA signing is a roll of the dice compared to the known quantity we already have in Spencer. We all like to rag on him a bit, but this situation shows just how much use he actually can be at times.
Ideally, we pen him to another 2 years at about 5 mil a season, but we both know that’s a pipe dream :(
"Ideally, we pen him to another 2 years at about 5 mil a season"
This would be my preference as well. I wonder if he’s more of a 7 million a year guy in this market, though…
Not sure Spencer will get over 7 a year
He was listed as the 5th best olb free agent this year. So considering Williams will get around 8-10 a year avril possibly 6-8 Spencer may be.looking at 4-7 and that isn’t gonna kill our chances to improve via free agency to bad. Hope he signs a decent deal of 12.5 million for 2 years. From what I’ve heard I think he is looking for a 5-6 year deal and for that I don’t think Dallas should make the signing. Spencer is solid but if we sign him for more than 3 years I feel like wares replacement won’t be with the team when ware is gone. I’d like to see Spencer around for a few more years with a solid backfield to see what he can produce sack wise for us. He has set the standard for run defense but he is gonna have to have a good productive pass rushing season this season or I believe we have to at all cost find our next stud olb.
by Sado44 on Feb 20, 2012 4:03 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
I completely agree. Tagging spencer is gonna prevent us from making moves in FA. I would rather roll the dice on mid tier OLBs and using butler on 3rd downs. I don’t think spencer is as good as everyone say he is
by somebodyquiet on Feb 20, 2012 1:16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I still don't get the whole "move Rat to de" movement
I mean, if you just want a lard ass at NT that is hard to move, then I get that. But look at the size of 3-4 de’s in the league. Isn’t Rat small for that as well? Maybe im wrong, im too lazy to look up rats size.
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
he's 6-2, about 305
So, he’s stockier than most DEs.
Think of him as the 3-4 version of Jim Jeffcoat: aging vet who could come in and make a few plays on passing downs.
by rabblerousr on Feb 20, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
are you talking about Ratliff, Rabble?
because he is listed at 6-3to 6-4 285-300(depending on the site)
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 20, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
Ok
So i looked on the mothership and he’s listed there at 6-4" 287lbs. Not saying you’re wrong rabbie.
But look at what they list him at and what they list the other de’s on the roster at.
Kenyon Coleman 6-5" 306lbs
Jason Hatcher 6-6" 302 lbs
Sean Lissiemore 6-4" 306 lbs
Marcus Spears 6-5" 315 ilbs
Clifton Geathers 6-7" 320 ilbs.
Seems to me Ratliff is undersized for that as well. I’ve never had a problem with Ratliff at NT.
I love the guy no matter where he plays on the line. He needs to be in the game somewhere. Bottom line.
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
by TARHEEL PAUL on Feb 20, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
in comparison to the Cowboys yes he is undersized Tarheel
compared to other “disruptive 5-techs” though he is fairly close in size
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 20, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
What 5's are you looking at?
I’m just curious.
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
by TARHEEL PAUL on Feb 20, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
I've met him, and he's nowhere near 6'4"
I’m 6’6" and when I met him and Marcus Spears, I was towering over him, and more or less looked Spears in the eye.
yeh I thought HAtcher was a 6'3, 4 guy
we drafted him because he ran a 4.8 40 and weighed 290lbs, not because he was tall though
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 20, 2012 5:29 PM CST up reply actions
Wow, you're 6'5?
I take back some of my opinions about your post….
He's good, but he's no Danny White!
by Shaymer on Feb 20, 2012 6:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Spencer is a very good Strong side OLB
I’ve been saying it all year to the haters. This guy is very good. We should keep him. Butler cannot stop the run, period. We need more pass rushing help on the DL!! Justin Smith type!
Great post by the way. This is how I see things as well. Fans want what they want but hey, I want a FarrarI and a Porsche!
by torchindefenses on Feb 20, 2012 12:40 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I dont think anybody really "hates" on Spencer
I’ve seen all the comments and I know people want more from him. He just hasn’t lived up to the fan bases expectations. Being a 1st round pick and playing for the Cowboys makes the expectations out of this world.
I agree with you in that he is a lot better than what most of us give him credit for.
I totally disagree with you on Victor Butler though. We don’t know if he can’t stop the run. He hasn’t been given the chance to do so. He only plays on passing downs. Besides, Ware couldn’t stop the run his 1st two years either.
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
by TARHEEL PAUL on Feb 20, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
Butler has been very good at diagnosing plays and getting better at shedding blockers to get to his man. I think we should give him the chance. Plus if carter is as good as his hype from college our MLB core can help with the Run deficit on running plays when we’re in our base
by somebodyquiet on Feb 20, 2012 1:19 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
He should have been given the opportunity last year knowing that Spencers contract was up.
it would have put them in a better position in regards to how they handle this now. At some point you have to play these guys to see if we have anything in them, so they can s**t or get off the pot with them and move forward. If it wasn’t for injuries Miles probably wouldn’t be on the team and we would still be wondering about Murray and his selection. I like the fact that we were willing to take a chance last year going young and all, but why wait until you have no choice but to take a chance on these guys.
by DCB* on Feb 20, 2012 2:07 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
The funny thing is that we are speculating
that the team does not think Butler can do it, and really we dont have a clue……
He who laughs last, thinks slowest
The Weather is here, I wish you were beautiful"
Indecision, may or may not be my problem
I like Spencer too
I just don’t 8 million dollars like him.
He's good, but he's no Danny White!
by Shaymer on Feb 20, 2012 6:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
FA Center and sign Spencer, backup CB and ILB
Draft BPA aligned with DL, CB, OLB, ILB, TE, QB, S
by torchindefenses on Feb 20, 2012 12:45 PM CST via mobile reply actions
or it at least buys you another year
….you better have a plan in place if he is gone. I don’t want to be in the position where I HAVE to draft a pass rusher in round one even if there is better talent on my board.
Wrong sign him for 4/5 yrs
by torchindefenses on Feb 20, 2012 12:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Stanford Routt has agreed to a three-year, $19.6 million deal
sure sounds affordable for a starting quality CB
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 20, 2012 12:51 PM CST reply actions
wow that is a nice bargain imo
around 6 million a year, man I hope we sign a CB now, if we missed out on Routt and strike out in free agency I will be very disappointed
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 20, 2012 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
where did he sign?
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
by TARHEEL PAUL on Feb 20, 2012 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
Answered my own questions.
He’s signing with the Chiefs. Going to make $11 mill next season with signing bonus. That would cut our cap space in half. Not including our rookie pool. Chiefs are one of those teams that have 60 mill in cap space. No doubt they will resign Brandon Carr too.
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
by TARHEEL PAUL on Feb 20, 2012 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
not necessarily
they have Brandon Flowers on the other side. I think they end up franchising Bowe and letting Carr go.
Really?
Yeah i didn’t even think about Flowers. I would rather have Carr anyways. But i wouldn’t be surprised if they kept all 3. You need 3 starting caliber db’s in todays NFL>
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
by TARHEEL PAUL on Feb 20, 2012 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
that's true......
I’m not really all that familiar with the Chiefs roster. You’re right they very well could be using Routt for the 3rd cb spot. I’m just wishfully thinking that the Chiefs would let Carr go. I have heard that the Chiefs are apparently pretty cheap historically. Apparently they have about 60 mil in cap space.
They were really cheap when Carl Peterson was the GM
My best bud is huge Chiefs fan and he seems to think they are going to spend out the wazoo this off season.
Two reasons,
1st. They have to. I think the new cba states that you have use 95% of your cap space.
2nd. He thinks Pioli might be getting on the hot seat if they don’t start improving very soon. Just my friends opinion though.
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
by TARHEEL PAUL on Feb 20, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
interesting
so the big question is (1) the Chiefs may not value Carr as much as other teams and simply let him walk (2) they plan to keep both Carr,Flowers, and Routt.
just saw this
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/
hopefully this is true
Looks like Carr will be on the open market come March 13
Will Jerry bid for his services???
In Romo we Trust
that's a good question
you never know with Jerry. I’m hoping. What do you think?
Chia, I think we're looking at an insurance vet for about 1-2 milllion per
and a 1-2 round draft pick.
Sucks to be a Cowboys fan..
“As a result, I think they will proceed more or less as they did late last summer”
They did nothing last summer and I guess we get more of the same. Jerry is out of capital. He has money but no cash flow. He’ll resign all the usual suspects and call it a great off season..
It’s like Groundhog Day, the movie..
but last summer, look at what the "noting in FA" strategy brought them:
1. Tyron Smith, Bruce Carter, DeMarco Murray (also David Arkin, Bill Nagy, Dan Bailey)
2. Cap space for this offseason
3. Dumping a lot of bloated veteran contracts
So, dong noting is sometimes the best strategy. Don’t eat the cheese ESPN is trying to tempt you with. FA is a fool’s game.
by rabblerousr on Feb 20, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Round two of getting rid of overpaid vets will happen this year, expect to be in better cap sit going forward
He who laughs last, thinks slowest
The Weather is here, I wish you were beautiful"
Indecision, may or may not be my problem
Doing nothing is sometimes the best strategy. Don’t eat the cheese ESPN is trying to tempt you with. FA is a fool’s game.
very well said, Rabble…
by Nate Trumble on Feb 20, 2012 2:23 PM CST up reply actions
But RR, you yourself said it's purpose
is for “must haves”. Right now for Dallas that’s 3-4 and climbing.
"Hope is not a strategy" Billy Beane
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones
Also, you'll have to count Robinson's 1-year deal
in with FA last year.
Hopefully we have the inside track on re-signing him.
There's always money in the banana stand.
Don't forget Radway with a fixed leg!
When you look at it in hindsight, last year was a very good off-season. I hope we can do the same thing again with about the same cap problems.
He's good, but he's no Danny White!
by Shaymer on Feb 20, 2012 6:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
these assertions that Jerry is tapped
are just unfounded.
Unless someone wants stick their neck out there and come forward to offer evidence, instead of speculation, most fans will dismiss said assertion(s).
Tag Team name for Sean Lee and Bruce Carter is RUSH HOUR
by Rohpuri on Feb 20, 2012 4:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The Cowboys in 2010 were reported to have had the highest cash flow
in the NFL. THe report came out last summer. They were also the most valuable team.
"How 'Bout them Cowboys!"---Jimmy Johnson
"...and the Cowboys...STUN the Bills!"--ESPN MNF
Bib Sturm has been saying that, since the advent of the new stadium, Jerry's got a cash flow problem.
Because his monthly payments are astronomical.
Norm Hitzges has been leading the bandwagon
But I don’t agree with it. The Cowboys had the highest payroll of any team in 2010. In 2011 they gave big-money extensions to Ratliff, Scandrick, and Sensabaugh.
The problem is the salary cap and bad contracts, not the checkbook.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Feb 20, 2012 5:38 PM CST up reply actions
SAM linebacker is a thankless position...
Strong side linebacker- in a 3-4 or 4-3 is about the dirty work, re-routing tight ends before rushing and setting the edge without getting hooked, all things that Spencer excels at but at 8.8 the tag is cost prohibitive for this team. Why tag him for 1 year, when you’d still have to draft his replacement high? Either pony up the extra 2 or 3 mil to sign Mario Williams or re-sign Spencer long-term for considerably less than 8.8 and spend your picks and money elsewhere.
If you’re drafting his replacement high, I mentioned elsewhere that I think Nick Perry and Andre Branch are names I expect to rise as the process proceeds, I don’t think Upshaw is ever going to be a pass rush improvement over Spencer, and I’m not in love with Ingram either.
I do think that someone like Soliai at NT and rat and Lissy at end improves the disruptiveness of the line greatly regardless of who plays SOLB. I don’t think Butler is an option. He’s more Ware’s back up on the weak side than Spencers heir. It takes bricks in your shorts to play the strong side and Butler just doesn’t anchor that way.
by Linebacker22 on Feb 20, 2012 12:57 PM CST via mobile reply actions
+1
Sign him long term. There isnt a replacement out there people!!!!! Get real for once.
by torchindefenses on Feb 20, 2012 1:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Finally,
someone who understands the SAM position. In addition, the Cowboys play the 3-4 under with an "elephant’ which puts even more pressure on the SAM position. The Cowboys need to sign Spencer to a reasonable deal.
4. Anthony Spencer won’t be easy to replace
where can I buy my ‘How easily Anthony Spencer is replaced is going to surprise people’ stock.
Dallas was 23rd in defensive net pass YPA. it’s hard to get worse.
guys I put in front of spencer: Ware, Lee, Ratliff, Jenkins, Sensa …
changing the 6th or 7th most important player on a below average defense is gonna have all the impact of a whip-cream pie.
on a related note, its caveat emptor when KB goes trolling for statistics to support a predetermined view.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Feb 20, 2012 1:05 PM CST reply actions
well
I believe Spencer would be quite easy to replace actually
you can find 6 sacks and adequate run support, jmo
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 20, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure Butler and whoever they draft or sign in free agency can come close to giving the same production Spencer gave.
Nobody is saying Spencer was terrible. Just that he definitely wasn’t great no matter what story the stats paint.
FITAT makes a great point that he is our fifth or sixth best player at best on defense. This is not a situation where everything falls apart if we don’t bring him back.
I think whatever they do to fill in that position there is going to be a free new attitude that will bring more to this defense than anything missed from Spencer going away.
devil's advocate
Rab, let me say first that I agree with your Spencer opinion. But just for fun, how about,
Mat Roth, 3.5 sacks in 412 snaps, we could sign him for around $3M as a transition to our next OLB
Spencer got his sacks in 939 snaps
interesting name
I think they really need to evaluate who is out there too. Franchising Spencer is less apealing to me than using that same 8.8 million on a decent player for 3 years if it frees the team up to pursue a CB, center or safety.
Additionally, I’ve been beating the drum for Ahmad Brooks. Was an integral part of S.F. dominant defense last year and they have some younger guys to give major snaps to next year (Aldon Smith). Brooks is a good run player and had 7 sacks last season.
There's always money in the banana stand.
Matt Roth is my touchpoint guy
Matt Roth truly is a JAG in the NFL. He bounces around year-to-year and just fills a role. But you can pay him $2.5 million to give you Spencer-like production.
The idea that Spencer is some impossible to replace part of our defense is false and the idea he deserves $9 million is insane.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Feb 20, 2012 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree: interesting name
He’s on the FA lists as a DE, so I didn’t see him.
He did good work for Rob Ryan in Cleveland in 2010, then signed with Jacksonville, and I assumed it was a multi-year deal.
Interesting (and cheap!) option. Hmmm….
go take a hard look at the stats for OLBs.
not comparing tackle totals for guys who played half the downs Spencer played or guys who missed half the year injured.
i.e. compare tackle rates and sack rates.
Once you do the basic, fundamental things to make players comparable, I think you’d find that Spencer doesn’t stack up so favorably.
someone please do this post!
all of Spencer’s totals are high because he played the most snaps on the Dallas defense.
http://sturminator.blogspot.com/2012/02/cowboys-e-mails-21712.html
And of the 1,053 snaps taken this season by the Dallas Cowboys defense, Anthony Spencer played 939 of them
of course he has more tackles than OLB’s who played 500 snaps.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Feb 20, 2012 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
this should be really obvious, but if you’re going to compare a player who played 16 games with a player who only played 8 or 10 games or was a situational player, you need to look at rates of production, not their totals.
the guy who played all 16 games will always have higher totals unless he absolutely sucks.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Feb 20, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
I got something in the works
primarily players I think could replace Spencer and I give what I think would be their production
its coming soon
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 20, 2012 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
I’m looking forward to it. Looking at Albright’s measurables, he certainly looks like he could out perform Spencer, and Butler’s struck me as oddly similar to Spencer’s
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 20, 2012 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
well I hope you’ll address the whole ‘Spencer is a top 5 LOLB’
all you need to do is take all the LOLB and adjust their production for the number of games they played.
the only reason Spencer’s stat totals are ok is he played a ton of snaps (he’s durable, I’ll give him that). its the same reason Roy Williams had good stats in Detroit (when they threw at him 150 times in a season) and the same reason Brandon Marshall looked good in Den (when they threw at him 180 times in a season).
I actually think that part of the reason that Spencer looks ok is most players with that kind of production get pulled. On most teams, if the OLB is only getting 0.3 sacks/game they’re coming out on rushing downs and getting replaced by Aaron Maybin or Jason Taylor.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Feb 20, 2012 5:30 PM CST up reply actions
that's valid
I’d of loved to have Jason Taylor riding our pine last year and the year before
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 20, 2012 5:32 PM CST up reply actions
I am going to start working on it tomorrow
just waiting for something
by Archie Barberio on Feb 20, 2012 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
I hit post too early
just waiting for something I am working on, the research and stuff
plus I got my big board in the works to come out before the combine
then I am going to start working on the Spencer stuff
by Archie Barberio on Feb 20, 2012 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
Archie? Chia, you went and got all growed up!
by rabblerousr on Feb 20, 2012 11:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rep yo Gramps, man!
What is the star now? A fallen piece of hardened plastic? The heaviest franchise in American sport? A false idol adored by many millions? The epitome of all that can be achieved with hard work? All that can be lost with too strong a sense of entitlement? A welcome coping mechanism, distracting from the real negativity on Earth? A bonding and separating agent?
by BlueNSilverBlood on Feb 21, 2012 12:29 AM CST up reply actions
yeah
gotta grow up sometime right? lol
by Archie Barberio on Feb 21, 2012 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
stat I'm most interested in when it comes to Spencer
is % of plays rushing the passer. If someone has that number, I’d love to see it, because that could swing my opinion of him one way or the other. If he really doesn’t rush much, then how much could we really gain in replacing him (unless of course we are scheming with his lack of pass rush ability in mind)?
On the other hand, if he does rush the passer 12+ times a game and his sack per rush rate is awful, that would be pretty concrete evidence that hes easy to replace at least in terms of pass defense.
as I understand it
Spencer rushed 407 times(I think I am close on that figure)
if that is true then he rushed ~25 times a game….
however bear in mind that:
A. He slides down and is the DE in third and long
B. Ware missed roughly a games worth of snaps
both of those factors probably led to an increase in rush attempts…..
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 21, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
if so...
I’m 100% against franchising him, and probably against resigning him all together. That is bad.
The only thing I can think of to warrant caution with that statistic is that his first duty is probably to protect that side, so even when he rushes the passer, he has to do so with far more discretion than Ware.
Still, if thats true,I don’t want him back. That means hes virtually irrelevant as a pass rusher.
actually, he was third most, behind the two starting safeties...
but I hear your point.
If you give me a list of names, I’ll compile “sacks per pass rush” figures for them
I will
you shall see soon enough
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 20, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
+1
Like OCC says who cares if we give up 4.2 instead of 3.8. We gotta get to the QB
by somebodyquiet on Feb 20, 2012 1:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'll take some too!
where can I buy my ‘How easily Anthony Spencer is replaced is going to surprise people’ stock.
Spencer is a JAG in the NFL. You can replace him with a $2.5 million veteran 260lb linebacker like Matt Roth and no one will notice a difference.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Feb 20, 2012 5:03 PM CST up reply actions
I like the koolaid!
Only thing is with Spencer I still disagree and also don’t understand how the thought of playing without him is terrifying? I just don’t think his numbers back up what he did. It’s a case of stats hiding what he really brings to a defense. Adequate or Almost Anthony as many have labeled. Early on I was for bringing him back but now realize with so many teams having enormous cap space that he will likely get offered huge $$$‘s. I’m against franchising him because I think for those amount of dollars we would be better served by bringing him two or three players who can contribute. Perhaps some old veterans on one year contracts.
Also it’s a bit weird how we all predict Ratliff to play well on the end but he didn’t take one snap there this whole season. You would think if the Cowboys were toying with the idea they might have played him there at least a little this past season. Nevertheless I agree he’s getting worn down by rushing up the middle and might be worth moving to the end.
Safety is not going to be a big splash this season. Barron is a popular pick but hasn’t shown abilities to cover the new prototype safety. It’s a weak draft & free agent class for safeties. I think they really like Church and also the kid they signed to a three year contract. Can’t remember his name but 3 year contract??? They must see something in him.
It’s going to be a fun draft and offeason!! :)
this is what hurts
And when it comes to rushing the quarterback, the only strong side OLBs who can boast better numbers are Lamaar Woodley and Clay Matthews, neither of whom are available.
we passed on Woodley for Spencer, giving up a load of draft picks to trade up for him
we traded our first round pick for Roy E Williams and that pick would have netted us Matthews
that really stings me
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 20, 2012 1:11 PM CST reply actions
come on, you know what our front office is capable of
Do you really think we would’ve actually selected those players? I doubt it.
who knows
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 20, 2012 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
We've done fine drafting the last few years
the problem is that stinkin’ ’09 draft when we had no high picks
"How 'Bout them Cowboys!"---Jimmy Johnson
"...and the Cowboys...STUN the Bills!"--ESPN MNF
well its still up in the air
honestly the 2008 draft doesn’t look like anything special really.
Felix – generally very good when healthy, but we probably are getting second round pick value out of him
Choice – don’t want to talk about him.
Jenkins – a very good 2009, a solid 2011, a not so good 2008 and an awful horrendous 2010 that we’re all pretending didn’t happen. I love his heart and he wears his emotions on his sleeve, but I’m not sure thats a good thing as confidence seems to strongly affect his play.
Scandrick – solid slot corner, nothing special, but imo a solid starter.
That sure looks like a bunch of roll players, with Jenkins’ future play being up in the air.
Also, we’re all hoping that Dez, Lee and Tyron progress into studs but thats up in the air too. While I think they will be better players than the aforementioned 4, they may level out at “good, not great” in which case 3 years from now we’ll have like zero elite players and likely be an irrelevant franchise.
Exhibit A for why
Dallas is an average football team, and can’t break back into the championship hunt.
The Steelers
and Cowboys play two entirely different 3-4 schemes. I gurantee you Woodley would not have the same amount of sacks if he had Ware on his team and he played in the Cowboys 3-4. No way.
lol
Anthony Spencer is not the Egg McMuffin of 3-4 OLB's
by Archie Barberio on Feb 20, 2012 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
And 31 other teams can say the exact same thing about almost every single top player on every other teams roster.
The exceptions of course are the high 1st round draft picks. But still, other than #1 they were all passed on by other teams.
Give Butler a SHOT!
I think our best chance to improve the D is to gamble on Butler being 90% of what Spencer is and spending the money on our Secondary. Corners that can actually cover for 3 seconds may give somebody other than Ware a chance for a “COVERAGE SACK” when was the last time Dallas had one of those? I say we use the transition tag on Spencer and if somebody wants to pay him then fine. At least we get a third round pick and another bullet in the gun on draft day. I can not see another team giving up a third for Spencer though and we retain his services for cheap and if he sits out let Butler play. After we resign Laurant we could grab Grubbs and maybe Grimes and that would go a long way in making both sides of the ball better. Earlier in the offseason there was an article about how every team in the playoffs had a real dominant side of the ball and played to that strength. Think Patriots elite offense and a defense that gave up the most yards but not points (Bend but dont break) We can shore up the offense and make it elite very easily. We can’t completely afford to overhaul our D. Spend the money on our two biggest liabilities G and CB and then let your draft board come to you. JMO
is spencer eligible
For the transition tag? Do we get that 3rd rounder this year or next? How much does he get paid if we use the transition tag on him? I know it’s a lot of questions but these are things I’m unfamiliar with.
"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!
by mho on Feb 20, 2012 3:29 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Boo to the transition tag
Apparently this would still cost us 7.2 million and only grant us right of first refusal. I’d rather franchise him and see if any of the big spenders would take a swing(giving us a shot at 2 first rounders). If not, you rework his deal and clear cap room for a now settled market.
by mfoster on Feb 21, 2012 5:49 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Question about the new CBA
With the new CBA, is applying the “Transition Tag” still an option?
If I remember correctly, this allows you to match an opposing teams offer doesn’t it? I’m not real sure how it worked. But the tag came in a lot less than the franchise tag. It would allow us to see what is market value is without the serious risk of losing him.
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
was thinking about that on friday.
i wish i had the answer for that. IMO if it is available thats the way to go
finish the Oline rebuild
by yehti on Feb 20, 2012 4:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Actually, After Making SURE
That they KEEP Lee and Robinson, my FIRST acquistion would be either Nick Hardiwick or Chris Myers as a Center! I’d resign Morris to a one year deal, wave good bye to Felix. Swap sides with Smith and Free. And next, go after Mario Williams, Mincey and/or Landry to shore up the defense SOME and focus the those same first three rounds of the draft on the defense (secondary and ILB) The remainder of the draft would be used to look for “depth” on BOTH lines and at ILB.
GO COWBOYS! GET SOME BIG D! AH-OOO-AH!
You would resign a old, has been RB who we picked up off the street.
And use him to dump one of the top RB’s in the league who we still have on his rookie contract?
And why wouldn’t we keep Lee? He is only 1/2 way into his rookie deal.
I seriously doubt you have the $ available to sign Robinson, a C and Mario all. Plus Landry, who has a major injury, etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, I don't really see the dump Felix and sign Morris
One is under contract and the other isn’t and this whole thread is about how to utilize our cap money.
There's always money in the banana stand.
Tarheel
You are correct I looked up the new transition tag and it is different thean the old one. The transition tag uses the avg of the top 10 instead of the top 5 that the franchise does or 120% of last years salary which ever is greater and if the player signs an offer sheet with another team the original franchise has 7 days to match or lose the player with no compensation. However I say if the difference between the transition and franchise is at least a couple of million dollars do it. I can’t see many teams (Other than the only team worse at managing the cap than us (THE REDSKINS)) Offering more than a top 10 price for Almost Anthony.
Skins have more under the cap than we do...btw
He who laughs last, thinks slowest
The Weather is here, I wish you were beautiful"
Indecision, may or may not be my problem
Skins have way more cap room
But the cowboys are a lot better off than a lot teams too. Some teams are over. I think the almighty giants are even over. Or right there at it.
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
by TARHEEL PAUL on Feb 20, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
Giants have $995,000.00
He's good, but he's no Danny White!
by Shaymer on Feb 20, 2012 7:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
This is now a passing league
and the emphasis will continue to go that way.
Spencer is good against the run and in containment, generally.
But that is no longer as important as it was even 5 years ago.
Bottom line is that we need more of a pass rush. And spencer is too expensive to keep considering what his production is where it counts now and will count more in the future
Rabble
You and I are on the same wavelength – in fact, I’d think you “stole” my idea…j/k
I’m completely onboard w/ the plan. Cowboys fans need to realize that the team isn’t going to the SB next year. The best way to build is slow and methodical. If that takes longer than Ware, Witten and Romo have, then it is what it is.
This years draft as well as last year’s has been notoriously weak at S and OLB. It has some fairly decent players, but Earl Thomas was the last great S prospect. Upshaw is not the next D Ware; he’s not even the next Spencer (he’s closer to Butler than Spencer).
Cowboys fans – relax. Build the team through the draft (not free agency) by drafting the best players available to help the team out as soon as possible. That means, get DeCastro if he’s there, get Curry if he’s there and so on.
I gag on the thought of paying $8.8 million to Spencer
It would be just as bad as the MBIII last year and RW last year. All that money went for WHAT?
Try Butler. Spend that money elsewhere. We can use it to fix other holes. Accept that one since we cannot fix them all this year.
I agree
too many people caught up in fear of losing Spencer. I wanted Victor Butler to challenge for the start spot last year but it didn’t happen. Now we’re on to 2012
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Feb 20, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
He should have been given the opportunity last year knowing that Spencers contract was up.
It would have put them in a better position in regards to how they handle this now. At some point you have to play these guys to see if we have anything in them, so they can s**t or get off the pot with them and move forward. If it wasn’t for injuries Miles probably wouldn’t be on the team and we would still be wondering about Murray and his selection. I like the fact that we were willing to take a chance last year going young and all, but why wait until you have no choice but to take a chance on these guys.
In regards to Spencer though, for the right price he should be retained, but unless we franchise him he will be playing elsewhere as I believe he would prefer a change of scenery.
I don't think this plan makes very much sense.
You want to franchise Spencer and draft his replacement with a valuable draft pick? Why go to that length? You would be drying up the pool of money that you just said earlier in the comments was valuable and hurting the chance of being able to get a few quality FAs (including Laurent). Is a platoon of Ingram/Irvin/Curry and Butler going to be that much worse than Spencer? And when you answer that, keep in mind that Ryan Kerrigan, Von Miller, Brooks Reed, and Justin Houston were all rookies last year who performed either around Spencer’s ability or better upon getting the chance.
The idea of both franchising Spencer and drafting his replacement just makes no sense to me. We rolled with just Tyron last year and look how that turned out. In addition, the rookie and Butler would only have to be average at minimum. That’s not remotely unattainable.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Feb 20, 2012 2:17 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Spencer had 6 sacks last year
He doesnt rush the passer every down. Hardly.
by torchindefenses on Feb 20, 2012 2:18 PM CST via mobile reply actions
If you had to estimate how many pass-rushing
snaps that Spencer got per game, what would you guess?
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Feb 20, 2012 2:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
75% of the time, Spencer is rushing the passer.
Tag Team name for Sean Lee and Bruce Carter is RUSH HOUR
by Rohpuri on Feb 20, 2012 3:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Is that true?
I feel like its more like 50 or possibly less as I remember many many 4 man rushes with Ware, but I have little other than a foggy memory to base that on.
It's over 50 percent if my memory serves me correct.
Through 12 games Spencer had rushed significantly less than Ware but when adjusted to a game average, it was about seven snaps less per game if I remember correctly. Considering this includes attempts and sacks I think Spencer was rushing somewhere in the vicinity of 20-25 times per game. I’ll look it up when I actually get to my computer.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Feb 20, 2012 6:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
It turns out that, if an 11 game pace is acceptable, that Spencer does rush the passer about 3/4 of the time a QB drops back against Dallas.
Through 11 games in 2011 (this data is from an old OCC post), Anthony Spencer had rushed the passer 283 times (Ware had 356 pass rushes).
Through those same 11 games, a QB had dropped back against Dallas a total of 411 times (sacks plus attempted passes).
Easy math tells us that Spencer rushed the passer around 69% of the time. Much higher than 50% and much more in line with Rohpuri’s guess.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Spencer played 939 plays last season. Here's the breakdown:
Run: 372
Pass Rush: 403
Dropped into Coverage: 164
So, he rushed less than 50% (42.9 to be exact)
by rabblerousr on Feb 20, 2012 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
That is not the question.
The question is on what percentage of pass plays does Spencer rush the passer. And since you have provided the full data, it would appear that percentage would be 71%, about 2% percentage points higher than an 11 game sample showed. The full data is almost irrelevant since the question is not about what Spencer can do in the run game. It does make me laugh though that he rushed the passer more than he played the run. Reading Kegbearer’s biased piece, you would have thought Spencer played the run way more often.
Let’s play some more games with this full data. Spencer had six sacks last year. I know for a fact that two of his sacks came while he was playing in coverage (assuming the data documents his assignment and not the outcome) and came up to tackle a scrambling QB (Jets and Cardinals ). That means that Spencer gets a sack slightly less than once every 100 times he rushes the passer. That’s ridiculously bad. Jason Hatcher through 11 games had 3 sacks in 161 pass rushing chances. Anyone still think he is anything but a terrible pass rusher? Sounds like a guy I don’t want to franchise.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
yep, thats what I was going for
thanks for the numbers Rabble.
And yes, thats bad.
I'd say 75% is way off the mark but I could be wrong
Why send Spencer and not ware I know ware rushed more than Spencer and so on your account that would basically mean we blitzed 75 % no way. Dallas hangs onto its 4 man rush alot more than it seams.
by Sado44 on Feb 20, 2012 5:34 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
In nickel situations, we commonly rushed four. Spencer was one of those four though at DE with Ware on the other side.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Feb 20, 2012 6:23 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
this is true
and also remember that Ware missed significant snaps(Around a full game’s worth i think)
both of these factors probably led to an increase in Spencer’s rush rate….
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 21, 2012 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
I too hate the idea that tagging Spencer is a key 2012 offseason priority.
I would not Tag him for 8.8mil PERIOD! END OF STORY. I would put Victor Butler in the starting line-up before franchising Spencer. What I would much rather try and do is work out a reasonable 4 or 5 year contract with him.
Something like:
5yr/25mil with 10 million guaranteed/5million signing bonus
2012 – 4mil base (1mil bonus)
2013 – 4mil base (1mil bonus)
2014 – 4mil base (1mil bonus)
2015 – 4mil base (1mil bonus)
2016 – 4mil base (1mil bonus)
In June of 2014 you could cut him and only take a 2million hit of dead money on your 2014 cap. You get 2 years to solve your starting SOLB spot through grooming/draft/FA.
A case for Mario Williams
The consensus three biggest needs for this team are pass rush, interior offensive line, and secondary. I think it’s the one thing we all agree on as long as we don’t assign priority to one over the other. This draft is deepest at guard and corner according to most sources. Sweet, we’re on the road to BPA and need instersecting nicely.
Nicks, Grubbs, Avril, Grimes, Finnegan, Carr all have had their names thrown out as likely tag candidates and may never see free agency. So with a center as my number one free agency target, why not do what it takes to put Mario Williams opposite Ware?
Before anyone says he doesn’t like the 3-4, I’ve heard fans say that, but never him. He’s certainly big enough to play the strong side on run downs and nevermind the fact that in today’s game you’d have both he and Demarcus with a hand on the ground well over what 60% of the time anyway?
That lets the draft truly be a BPA affair, with a guard with early starting potential and secondary the focus at the top, with a developmental QB late.
I understand the implications, McGee is the #2 for a year. Not because I believe in him, but because I’m not spending on someone I hope won’t play. Robinson likely walks for someone like Robert Meachem, and a blocking TE, back-up ILB and a vet safety on a one year must be found.
Just because band-aids and the draft Are the sensible road to franchise building, it ignores the ticking clock hanging over the QB position. You only have a shot if you have a franchise QB- don’t forget what it felt like wandering the post Aikman wilderness. Ask the Redskins how it feels now. I’m talking about impact. Parity is alive and well, and everyone has flaws. Play well at QB and hit the opposing QB and you’re in every game in this league.
by Linebacker22 on Feb 20, 2012 2:45 PM CST via mobile reply actions
We'd need to switch to a 4-3
and draft another LB.
He can’t cover. We’re already too inflexible with our 3-4.
There's always money in the banana stand.
Mario will cost too much ...
There is going to be somebody that pays him money that’ll make every person on this blog drop their jaw.
Being a good GM isn’t about getting the best players on your team — it is about getting the most player for your $. Mario is going to cost a premium because he plays a premium position, and the Cowboys cannot pay it.
In the end, this isn’t about Mario the player not being good enough — it is about Mario not being able to justify the $$ it will take to sign him.
If you want the team to follow BPA in the draft
This is what probably (emphasis added) will happen.
Tag Team name for Sean Lee and Bruce Carter is RUSH HOUR
by Rohpuri on Feb 20, 2012 2:59 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Mario Williams is about to become the highest paid defender in the NFL
this reminds me of that Cheech and Chong song, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy51CTN6AfE
The part that goes “I only know three chords! Watch me burn!!!”
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
Just toying with the idea...
Of an all-in scenario with Mario. This is the NFL where cap impact in the early years of the deal can be minimized in favor of bonus allowing for the surest, and biggest possible upgrade of the pass rush. Under any secenario a FA center is an absolute must for me.
I might prefer prying Carr away from the Chiefs, but in terms of starting corners not flirting with 30 he’ll be a one man market too. He’ll likely be within sniffing distance of 8 figures in average comp.
An impact player under 30 is an exceedingly rare animal, and not one I’m certain I’d want to pass on given that I’m not willing to write off 2012 in the interest of future success. I don’t think you’d be mortgaging the future at all with what we know about the coming salary cap.
by Linebacker22 on Feb 20, 2012 3:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think this is a pretty stout plan
The one problem I have is the idea of franchising Spencer. When it comes down to it, Spence is actually a pretty decent player, and I think we’re a few years from needing to replace him (or having a good enough team that we can start looking at replacing someone who is above average at his position).
So something in the order of a 5 year/25-30 million dollar contract could keep him here and lower the cap hit for this year.
I'd disagree on a few things, Rabble,
I’d sign Anthony long-term for 5.5-6 mil a year.
Would you keep TNew if he signed for less than what his prorated signing bonus hit will be? I would not. I fully disagree with keeping aging players like James and TNew, who are each part of the problem in their own way.
This has a plan I laid out that has us keeping Spencer, Robinson, Ball and Elam, Picking up Meyers or Wells @ Center and bringing back ballhawk Cletis Gordon, who has managed to hang around the NFL. Then drafting DeCastro, Poe (who could be a CB if Brent is ready,) so Rat can slide to DE, A QB, and Fleming.
We would have dominant lines, for sure, as long as one of our young Gaurds develop.
What is the star now? A fallen piece of hardened plastic? The heaviest franchise in American sport? A false idol adored by many millions? The epitome of all that can be achieved with hard work? All that can be lost with too strong a sense of entitlement? A welcome coping mechanism, distracting from the real negativity on Earth? A bonding and separating agent?
by BlueNSilverBlood on Feb 20, 2012 3:28 PM CST reply actions
*Poe pick could be used on a CB if Brent and Lissy ready.
What is the star now? A fallen piece of hardened plastic? The heaviest franchise in American sport? A false idol adored by many millions? The epitome of all that can be achieved with hard work? All that can be lost with too strong a sense of entitlement? A welcome coping mechanism, distracting from the real negativity on Earth? A bonding and separating agent?
by BlueNSilverBlood on Feb 21, 2012 12:31 AM CST up reply actions
If Ware and Ratliff were traded.......
how would that change cap room over the next few years?
Ratliff's new contract makes him un-trade-able
No one will want that contract.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Feb 20, 2012 4:53 PM CST up reply actions
Another management mistake then......
to add to the others.
Hold on ya’ll. We revisited the Rat contract last week. IIRC he’s cuttable after 2 years with no dead money impact. That’s reasonable imo.
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 20, 2012 9:06 PM CST up reply actions
actually in two years
Cutting Ratliff would create roughly 5 million in dead money(he has a ~11 million signing bonus)
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 21, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
If you count 2012,
it’s 3 years. He will get a 10 mil signing bonus in 2013. He will get 1.6 mil this year from his prior contract. It’s really not that bad of a deal.
The signing bonus in 2013......
makes a trade almost impossible being the main point. No one is giving picks and picking up that bonus also. Not to mention the dead money baggage that would be highlighted.
He should have been traded before the last deal. Like so many before him.
Agreed,
tired of seeing them take some of these guys into retirement and being the last one’s holding the bag. I can understand extending/resigning for 5-7yrs a QB that will likely play at high level into their late 30’s, but for an undersized NT who can only one gap in a 3-4 didn’t sit well. I like Ratliff but at DE not NT out of position and undersized. He maybe another Newman situation down the road, but at least he’s durable.
rabble, good post
theres deff some very hard decisions to be made. i know the Spencer decision is not popular but it might be a nessecary evil for this year. obviously a 3-4 yr deal for 15-24 million depending on years would be best, but maybe not possible.
some days i drink the koolaid others im more gloom. today is a gloom day so maybe the best option is to let him walk try Butler and just go with it. Dallas has expiremented with Ball, Costa, Petitte why not with Butler?
finish the Oline rebuild
by yehti on Feb 20, 2012 4:48 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I think the part where you miss the mark on both of these offseason plan articles is in identifying the length to impact and the immediate impact of specific positions and players. Newman was terrible. A top 3 corner from either FA or the draft would be great, but a lower-tier corner will improve the defense. Unless you don’t plan on playing Jenkins or Scandrick, there’s no reason to grab more than two corners. Costa is terrible (I think so anyways), but all you really need the center to do is snap the ball. Allocating a good chunk of your cap space in FA to a center isn’t necessary. Ratliff wears down from getting double-teamed and playing so many snaps. If Brent or Hatcher stays healthy or they play Lissemore more and sooner, Ratliff wouldn’t have worn down as much. If you move him, you don’t really solve your problem, and you create another one by moving one of the NFC’s best DTs. And I’m doubting Dallas bothers to franchise Spencer other than to have the ability to match an offer. Plus, these little things like paying for Orton and Elam and Holland are just silly. You spend money on important players, and then you should fill in cheaply as needed. Really Dallas should have two priorities: buying a top-tier free agent at a need spot (like Nicks at guard or Finnegan at corner) and drafting the best player on their board, presumably one that plays defense and has scheme diversity.
by strokes on Feb 20, 2012 4:52 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Second!
Really Dallas should have two priorities: buying a top-tier free agent at a need spot (like Nicks at guard or Finnegan at corner) and drafting the best player on their board, presumably one that plays defense and has scheme diversity.
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 20, 2012 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
Have to completely disagree with you Rabble
Operation Bring All The Failed Players Back But Pay Them More (except 1 new cornerback) sets this team up for 8-8 all over again.
And explain to me again why we must draft a 3rd round CB and sign a FA CB? The team hooked up to the Scandrick wagon this offseason so he’s not going anywhere. Who is this 3rd round CB replacing? Our only good CB in Jenkins? What does replacing Jenkins with a 3rd rounder accomplish?
by Blue Eyed Devil on Feb 20, 2012 4:56 PM CST reply actions
TOld Ball Walker
finish the Oline rebuild
by yehti on Feb 20, 2012 5:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You don't need to pass over the next Sean Lee or a starting 2012 guard to replace Alan Ball
To replace Alan Ball you don’t have to force yourself into drafting for need with your premium picks.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Feb 20, 2012 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
i agree with that.
Draft should be BPA and fill needs with FA
finish the Oline rebuild
by yehti on Feb 20, 2012 5:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
This is Jenkins final year on his rook deal.
We have to keep looking forward. If Jenkins disappoints this year, we wont want to sign him to a long term deal. If Jenkins plays gangbusters we may not be able to afford him next offseason. (CB#1’s are going for 10mil/yr)
A rookie CB typically takes a year to adjust. What do we do for our #1 or #2 CB next year? You think it’s Scandrick? smh.
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 20, 2012 6:48 PM CST up reply actions
Scandrick...please...
I don’t see Scandrick as anything other than a slot DB. And I’m not sold on that.
If we put him on the corner…we’ll wish Newman was back…
Im pretty sure we know what Scandrick is at this point in his career. His ceiling has been met. He’s a Slot CB at best and probably better suited as a Dime CB at that. I’d like to upgrade our CB#2 this year and slot CB in 2013, which would push Scandrick to our #4 CB in 2013.
It’s unlikey we’ll be able to do that if we dont draft one and hire a FA THIS offseason.
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 20, 2012 7:48 PM CST up reply actions
wow
How are the Chiefs and Bucs ever going to get to the cap floor? Do these teams have nobody under contract?
That changes my expectations of FA considerably for us. I don’t see much of a path to get one of the elite players we’ve been talking about.
Bad teams are bad
The Panthers were in the same situation last offseason.
They signed Charles Johnson to a 6-year $71 million contract
They signed DeAngelo Williams to a 5-year $43 million contract
They signed James Anderson to a 5-year $22 million contract
They signed Jon Beason to a 5-year $50 million contract
This is what bad teams do when they have cap space. They spend $190 million bringing back the same players that made them 2-14.
This is what bad teams do, they don’t let their players walk. Instead they overpay them. Anthony Spencer anyone?
by Blue Eyed Devil on Feb 20, 2012 5:17 PM CST up reply actions
Andre Gurode anyone?
There's always money in the banana stand.
We have so many holes to fill it's not funny!
$20M in cap isn’t a lot of money…so I don’t see the Boys signing any of the big name FAs. As much as I love to sign a Carr or a Finnigan or a Nicks….it isn’t going to happen with so many holes to fill. Nicks would be my guy if we want so spend $8-$9M on anyone.
Here’s my unqualified approach…
OFFENSE:
Sign a veteran FA center and draft DeCastro assuming he’s avaialble. DeCastro has to be #1 on our draft board as far as both BPA and Need!
We have so many holes to fill in the defense we absolutely need one of our young OL to step up and fill one of the starting interior lineman positions. Whether that’s Costa/Nagy/Arkin or Kowalski I don’t care. But we invested a lot in drafting most of these guys last year so we need to give one of these guys a chance. Drafting a good C prospect would be a must need if we don’t sign a veteran.
Then sign WR Robinson to a $4-$5M 4-5 year contract. We have been looking for good WRs for the last 10 years and now we finally have a compliment of three so we need to hold on to all three…Austin/Dez/&Robinson. If we can’t get Robinson to sign (reasonably) then we go FA. past Robinson I don’t see any other WR on our roster who could in any way be a 3rd receiver. We are in trouble if we don’t sign Robinson or bring in a #3 FA WR. Real trouble…
Sign Bennet if he’s reasonable otherwise he’s gone. Draft a low round TE prospect to replace Bennet or a veteren FA..
RBs with Murray/Felix/Tanner…and sign Flammetta for sure. Signing Flammetta should cost a lot.
DEFENSE:
As hard as it is to say this…DL is our strength. Not saying mush…but that the state of affairs with our D. At least we have some young DL guys that have some upside and they’re all on the roster. We have too many needs in our LB and DB corps to expend too much money on the DL. I’m all for a 3-4 round NT with a lot of upside in the draft if we like someone. For sure…
We need LBs in a big way. If we want to bring James back at near veteran minimum and we need the body then we do it. Brookings is done. We go with Lee and Carter and hope for the best with Carter. If he was supposed to be a 1st rounder than let’s see it. He should be starting if he has that talent.
OLB…I’d personally sign Spencer to a 3-4 year contract in the $5-$6M range if and only if the Cowboys do not believe Butler or Albright is the answer. If the Cowboys believe that either of these two could be plugged in to replace Spencer than don’t waste the money on Specner. Personally, I believe Spencer is worth the investment. If the Boys want to draft his replacement in the 1st or 2nd round than so be it.
The Boys obviously need 4 DBs…a SS and 3 CBs….at the very least.
If Decastro is gone at #14 and Dre Kirkpatrick is available than we jump on Dre and plug him into Newman’s spot. Newman is done and gone we can all agree to that. I’m high on J. Jenkins too. If he’s the best on our board at #14 we take him. If we have graded a few of the 2nd round DBs as a first year starters then we can pass on Jenkins at #14 and select the next best OL. In this senario…we could trade down in the 1st round also…pick up another 3rd and draft another DB in the 2nd-3rd round. DBs are deep in the draft through the 3rd round.
So….
OL/C 1st-3nd Round
DB/S 1st-3rd Round
OLB 1st-3rd Round
So that’s five positions to fill in the first 3 rounds. What we don’t select in the first three rounds are filled in the 4th Round with our two 4th round picks.
With the rest of the picks we go BPA with a focus on DEFENSE…LBs and CBs…maybe a DL we’re high on.
Short of specificlly which prospects we select this is my best plan. And I can drink as much Kool Aid as the best of them…
not that Robinson wasnt great for us this season
but is he worth using 1/4 of the cap space for him? 4-5 million is close to a Vet Center (add another 1-2 million) IMO if its Robinson or a Center i want a Center. Dallas’ skill position are still pretty stout without him.
finish the Oline rebuild
by yehti on Feb 20, 2012 5:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
W/O Robinson?
If you don’t sign Robinson then you’ve got to sign another #3 via the FA market. I can see us doing this but we’ll still pay $2-$3M if we want some assurances that he cn fill the #3 spot. I’d rather pay another $2M and be sure we have someone that has proven can be an asset and someone that Romo can trust. We bring in a FA…it could take another year for that person to build a rapport with Romo. None of our other WRs have the skill set for a #3.
i dont totally disagree with your thoughts
if Robinson does walk at least this year theres a full off season to work with. id love to Robinson back i really would but to pay him that kind of money when Dallas has alot of holes where that money could go. Dallas has ALOT of very hard questions to answer, its gonna be rough for them
finish the Oline rebuild
by yehti on Feb 20, 2012 5:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yep...
I agree there are so many needs that it’s going to be tough to cough up $4-$5M for anyone! We need a veteran C, maybe G, and a veteran CB, maybe S. I’m sure we will be looking to file these roles with 2nd to 3rd tier FAs at no more than $2M.
So with Robinson it’s tough. Do some cap friendly magic voodoo…whatever it takes. If we don’t have a viable #3…Austin and Bryant will be blanketed.
What the hell….maybe we can get Robinson for $3-$3.5M…there are a lot of FA WRs available.
Please DO NOT PAY more than 3.5-4mil for a WR#3 this off-season. The crop is deep. Try and sign LR with a 3-4yr/10-12mil deal. THATS FAIR. Romo put Laurent Robinson on the map. Before TR & RHG – LR was nothing but a bust journey-man WR. He fits our offense perfectly and developed instant chemistry with Romo.
Both sides win.
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 20, 2012 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
I'd take Robinson at 4-5mil
over Spencer at 8. It’s not about Spencer… Its about Spencer for 8 MILLION dollars.
He's good, but he's no Danny White!
by Shaymer on Feb 20, 2012 7:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
off topic
i cant wait till friday so i can watch Act of Valor. just saw another commercial movie looks amazing.
finish the Oline rebuild
by yehti on Feb 20, 2012 5:27 PM CST via mobile reply actions
haha me too
An action movie where they use live ammunition instead of blanks and have zero CGI so it’s all real? That sounds awesome!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Feb 20, 2012 5:35 PM CST up reply actions
Oooooh! real bullets?
I’d rather see that movie than tag Spencer…. BOOM. Back on topic.
He's good, but he's no Danny White!
by Shaymer on Feb 20, 2012 7:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Nice work as always
Though I realize you’re trying to deal in the art of the possible (working within the confines of what you predict the front office will do), I happen to be less responsible, and full of ideas.
I think you can get roll the dice on relatively young free agents that won’t break the bank (too much), and might end up being pieces to a championship puzzle.
Here are some names I find interesting:
- Sammie Lee Hill, NT. Very underrated, and only 25 y/o
- Tracy Porter, CB. Down year, might get him at a discount. 26 y/o
- Terrel Thomas, CB, injured, might get him at a discount. 27 y/o
- Dan Conner, ilb, Carolina is linebacker-rich, so they will likely let him walk. Just 26.
- Tyvon Branch, S, might be the most expensive player on this list, but could be a building block. 26 y/o
Also, unicorns.
Please check out the charity that I run, Fort Worth Music Outreach@ www.fortworthmusicoutreach.org
forget unicorns, i prefer abominable snowman
finish the Oline rebuild
by yehti on Feb 20, 2012 5:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Wouldn't....you....prefer.....Yehtis?
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
"Meanwhile, like a bitter wine, Philadelphia’s jealousy fermented in the dark cellars of pride and resentment. With no playoff hopes of their own, Eagles fans turned towards hating the Cowboys." Steve Sabol, NFL films
USE SPENCER MONEY FOR A DEFENSIVE END
Mario Williams/ Calis Campbell/ Cliff Avril are better but Jason Jones is the next best choice.
Victor Butler plus Jason Jones is better than Spencer plus Coleman.
Ain't happening...
Campbell and Avril will be franchised…their clubs have already pretty much stated that. It will take $12M to land Williams…something like that. We have so many needs that I just can’t see that happpening…shouldn’t happen. Williams has stated that money isn’t the bottom line with him…so he wants to stay in Houston…at probably $10M? But if he’s going to take less…it will be with Houston.
its all about readers, and new stories daily
i think alot of people write stuff not because they believe itll happen but to cover all bases, to get readers and comments
finish the Oline rebuild
by yehti on Feb 20, 2012 5:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I really like Bob Sturm, I think he’s been one of the best Cowboys analysts over the last 3 years and I read/listen to a lot of his stuff.
That said, he’s completely off-base with his Anthony Spencer analysis.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Feb 20, 2012 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
I think Rabble's ideas are solid
Just like most folks I’d love for the Boys to be able to plug all their personnel holes with high-end FA’s( like Carl Nicks and Mario Williams) and high draft picks but it just ain’t gonna be possible. I think in free agency the first order of business is re-sign the guys you want to keep, ie Robinson, Fiammetta, Lumpy. and yes, Spencer. Then shoot for a starting center, a good veteran back-up QB, and maybe a solid vet CB. In the draft I’d look at CB in Rd.1, and look for NT in 2 or 3. Want to improve the pass rush? Try having some DB’s that can cover, then get a good Nose Tackle that can collapse the pocket, allowing Ratliff and Lissemore to move to DE completely. Heck, if it was up to me I’d just go back the 4-3 but I doubt they’d want to do that.
by Son of Pete Wright on Feb 20, 2012 6:29 PM CST reply actions
cutting Buehler & Coleman
will give them an add’l $3.15 mil under the cap (per the mothership) on top of the $20 mil it looks like they’ll have now. Yes please—that extra might be enough to get that “one more guy” like a vet C or S.
Gone...
Well then…we have $23M in cap…because both of these guys are gone…no doubt…
Well maybe you keep Coleman for the minimum if you want…but Buehler is obviously gone…
Thats a JJ pet cat. And you do know that it’s damn near impossible to eradicate cat piss.
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 20, 2012 7:50 PM CST up reply actions
chiefs signed routt to play cb, meaning brandon carr is most likely gone
go sign Carr to play CB
by Nets2410 on Feb 20, 2012 8:02 PM CST via Android app reply actions
it's crazy Mario Williams is going to be the highest paid defender in NFL History
and everyone knows he won’t live up to it, and is ok with it.
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
Even with the IR history, you're probably right
All Mario Williams silliness aside, and it felt good to say it while I was at the office today, I think rabble’s plan is highly likely with the exception of using the tag. I still think it would be cost prohibitive to the point that I’d be willing to let Spencer walk if other teams drive his price too high, and deal with the fallout of needing to find a Woodley or Matthews in the draft, BPA be damned.
Just plug in Albright and Butler already!
How much of a drop-off could there possibly be? Jeezus why did we draft one in the first 4 rounds and keep the other on the roster for this entire year?
You gotta play these guys to see what you have! I.E. What if Austin languished on the bench for 4 years? We’d of probably cut him. What about Jeremy Lin?
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 20, 2012 9:10 PM CST up reply actions
Based on what? You don’t even have a representative sample for Butler, how can you make a valid comparison?
Just the other day someone posted the stats of both players projected over similar snap counts and you know what? Butler’s production BLEW AWAY Spencer over a similar # of snap counts.
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 21, 2012 1:12 AM CST up reply actions
How were Butlers numbers against the run?
Oh yeah, he wasn’t even on the field for running plays. Don’t you think that there might be a good reason for this?
"Rob [Ryan] is like Houdini with hella swag." -T. Newman
by Yoko Romo on Feb 21, 2012 5:37 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Eh. There are four OLBs drafted last year that I would rather have than Spencer right now.
In addition, I think Christopher Carter, who didn’t get much of a look behind Harrison, Woodley, and Worldlis, will eventually be a great player for the Steelers considering his combine numbers (36" vertical, 6.88 3-cone drill) were only slightly worse than Von Miller and JJ Watt’s.
Draft a guy in the first two or three rounds and platoon him with Butler and you should be fine.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
This is the most reasonable analysis I have read in a long time.
I have two things to add-
1- Don’t give up on finding a 34DE that can generate an inside pass rush. Guys like Devon Still and Brockers could be available in the first round, for example and would make both Ratliff and Spencer look better. There will be guys available in later rounds as well, although they might take more time to develop into every down players. This type of guy could play in both base and nickel situations without taking Spencer, Ratliff, or even Butler off the field.
2- Don’t succumb to the misguided notion that moving Ratliff to end will improve our pass rush. There is a reason that Parcells, Phillips, and Ryan have all played Ratliff as a NT in the base and as one of the 2 Interior linemen in our nickel- he is one of the best interior pass rushers in the entire NFL and has earned ProBowl trips doing this. He can only get worse playing end, not better. Nobody else that we have on the roster or could possibly draft will be better at generating interior pressure than Ratliff. As a pass-rusher, it is FAR easier to replace Spears, Hatcher, or Coleman than Ratliff.
"Rob [Ryan] is like Houdini with hella swag." -T. Newman
by Yoko Romo on Feb 21, 2012 5:34 AM CST via mobile reply actions
The 6 teams you listed account for roughly half of the $711 million total cap space so...
I think this is a flawed statistic. Using the average cap space isn’t a fair number. Statiscally, I do not think this is an evenly distributed sample population. The top six teams carry more weight than the other 26. Where the Cowboys rank according to the “MEDIAN” cap space would be a more appropriate number. To calculate the median available cap space you just line up all the teams in terms of available cap space from lowest to to highest. The middle number (16th in this case since there are 32 teams) is the median. I don’t have the data but I bet this way the Cowboys numbers look a lot better. The average cap space is 22.2 million, but what is the middle or MEDIAN number? And how far below it are we?
oops
don’t know why it went bold all of a sudden
by dmagikwand on Feb 21, 2012 10:04 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
Jerrah "The Fool" GM is wrong again about our DL........and here's why
First of all, all of the elite, NFL tough-as-hell, 3-4 Defenses (Steelers, Ravens, Patriots) have a mammoth NT to push the pocket (to allow their Outside LBers to get to the QB or to allow their DE’s to get to the QB if he steps up into the pocket or slides left or right as Eli and Brady and Rogers and Brees always do) and to stop middle draws (which is our weak spot since teams are successfully converting 3rd& Short, 1st and Goal, and gashing us up-the-middle for 4-6yds on 1st down)!!!
Jerrah ‘The Fool’ Jones has it in his power again (this year) to either sign or draft a mammoth NT but he’s too dumb (like Michael Jordan as GM of the NBA Bobcats) to make it happen. His comments ‘speak’ for themselves!!! He can easily sign Free Agent, Pro-Bowl, NT Paul Soliai (who’s 6’4"& 355 lbs) from the Dolphins. This FA signing would be a ‘watershed moment’ much like trading for Charles Haley in the early years of our Super Bowl runs!!! Signing Soliai would improve our Pash Rush, Run Defense, and Secondary (who would NOW a fierce Pash Rush to help Rob Ryan and his DBs to anticipate HOT routes and HOT throws)!!!
Jerrah could then go into the DRAFT and get us another stud OT or OG in the 1st Rd, a stud CB in the 2nd RD (who could compete with DB Mario Butler for a starting spot either at Right CB or Nickel CB if Scandrick takes T-New’s old spot), and a stud RB in the 3rd Rd (who could move into the starting lineup if Demarco Murray goes down again…..and go review RB T. Ganaway’s size, speed, and incredible stats of 21 rushing TDs and 1,547 rushing yds last year)!!!
Sounds easy……but…..NOT….if your name is Jerrah Jones!!!!
The Pats don't have a tough as hell defense.
There's always money in the banana stand.
Brady and the Offense didn't get to the Super Bowl alone.....but don't we just love goof-ball replies
The point WAS that we need a mammoth 2-gap NT so RAT can be moved to DE. If you don’t see HOW our Rush Defense and Pass Rush improves with a mammoth NT, you’re as HOPELESS as Jerrah and Stephen. Even the Secondary gets a benefit because opposing QBs can’t hold the ball as long and can’t step up into the pocket and sliding right or left without getting sack by RAT or the other DEs. If they stay at their 5-step or 7-step drop zone, then WARE and Spence will sack or strip the ball. Jeez…cowboy fans are SLOW!!
Which is WHY they LOST
This last Super Bowl! The Giants BARELY squeaked by the Niners (and then only because of lousy play by the Niners ST and a fast whistle!)Said Niners DO NOT have a great offense but they do have a VERY good defense! DEFENSE WINS! How many teams held EITHER the Packers OR the Pats to 20 or less points? The Giants held BOTH to that. And, doing so enabled their journeyman QB and their offense to score enough points for the win.
Oh, and if dumping a bench hugger who only started producing after a rookie made it clear that it COULD be done and signing an old but proven player to a ONE YEAR contract so as to have a full roster without needing to SPEND BIG if you don’t HAVE to (knowing you can replace the older player the FOLLOWING year); is dumb then, yes, I am.
GO COWBOYS! GET SOME BIG D! AH-OOO-AH!
LOL at calling Eli a journeyman. He just wrote his ticket to the HOF.
There's always money in the banana stand.
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