Defining Leadership For The Dallas Cowboys
Late last week, some comments by Jason Hatcher implying that there was a lack of leadership last season within the Dallas Cowboys created a bit of a stir amongst us fan types. It would appear that the fans were not the only ones who took note of the comments. DeMarcus Ware, who is arguably the best player on the Cowboys now and for the past several years, said in an interview last Saturday that he does not see it that way.
"The thing is on our team, there's not a guy who is just a straight up, solitary leader. I think it comes as a whole," Ware said. "You got to look at it as we have [Tony] Romo, we have [Jason] Witten, you have me, Bradie James, Sean Lee. Everybody has their role and they take on that leadership role when it's needed. Every team doesn't need just a one-time guy who is like the leader of that team. If everybody is checking everybody, that's all you need. There comes a time to step up when it's time to step up and get the job done."
So, who is right and who is wrong? Put your opinion in after the jump.
There seems to be an obvious difference in the way Hatcher and DWare see leadership. To be truthful, they both have a point. Leadership is not a simple formula where things are done one way and one way only. Good leadership is defined by the situation, the personalities involved, the time frame, and a variety of other things. Above all, good leadership is that which works, and the best leadership works both short and long term.
Back when I was still fanposting, I wrote some articles that used military analogies. I haven't done as much of that since I got to the front page, but this topic can be perfectly illustrated by dusting off that motif.
Back in the 1920s, a couple of young US Army officers became fascinated by the idea of armored warfare. They were stationed together, and both were convinced that the problems that had led to the recent World War were not solved, and that there was likely to be a sequel in the not too distant future. They saw this new invention called the tank as the key to future land combat. They completely disassembled a tank used for training and put it back together again, just so they could understand how it all worked. Later in life, they would have their differences, but they would also use the knowledge they gained as young officers to work together effectively when their nation needed them.
Their names were Dwight D. Eisenhower and George S. Patton. One would be the Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, whose greatest accomplishment was perhaps not as a combat leader, but as the man who held the British/American alliance together, while also dealing with the French and the Russians. The other was arguably the best mechanized army field commander ever, who was given the perfect tools at the perfect time for the Allied drive across France in 1944. And they were about as different in leadership style as any two men could possibly be.
Eisenhower was the master of building consensus and keeping the huge egos he had to command working together and not against each other. Patton was a self described prima donna who at various times would love to have challenged, among others, Bradley, Montgomery, and even Eisenhower himself to a duel. Eisenhower dealt with his men by going out and talking to them one on one, from the other generals down to the lowest private - and making them all feel like he respected and cared about them. Patton dealt with his men by standing up and giving bombastic, grandiose speeches like the one at the start of the movIe about him, which was actually a talk he gave, more or less, on several occasions. Sort of a bloodthirsty stump speech.
Completely different leadership styles. Who was the most effective? Well, both were very successful at the tasks set for them. If they had changed places, Eisenhower would possibly have been able to do the same, although perhaps not as daringly. And Patton would have likely broken the Alliance apart.
Hatcher seems to want that rah-rah, blood and guts, go-out-and-stomp-the-other-team kind of leader. He thinks that kind of inspiration would help.
"You have to have somebody who will hold you accountable and with a leader like that, everybody is held accountable, guys aren't doing their own thing here or there. Everybody is going in one direction," Hatcher said. "Once you have that, you'll be good. We're still looking for it."
That kind of leadership can be useful in the short term. It can rally a team at a crucial moment. But there are a lot of issues with it as well. I'm not going to get into what this may or may not say about Jason Hatcher the player, mainly because ScarletO has already done that quite candidly, to put it mildly. I take issue with the basic concept. As a long term way of handling things, I don't see this as the most effective approach. Maybe that is because I find a bunch of large, very athletic men in their twenties and thrities jumping around and talking like the sports entertainment they are participating in is life and death a bit ludicrous. But mostly, it is my experience. Getting all pumped up is good if you have a short term goal. In the long term, it wears thin. And it has to come from, essentially, a superstar. Joe Average giving that speech does not work. Ray Lewis can get away with it because he has established himself as one of the best in the business. Patton got away with it because he had faced the enemy himself, once leading an armored advance into hostile fire on foot. Oddly enough, he was not that courageous. He just couldn't stand anyone knowing how scared the thought of dying a coward made him, so he deliberately placed himself in harm's way early in his career to prove to the world, and himself, that he could do it.
But in the end, that kind of leadership becomes all about the leader. It is a cult of personality thing. It can work - but what happens the day the leader is not there? You can't just grab some guy out of the ranks and tell him to go do the same thing. It doesn't work.
DWare is describing something much more effective, a leadership that relies on a core of experienced players, who become a leadership corps within the team. It is, above all, leadership by example. It is players who refuse to be outworked, who don't shirk, who give everything they have to the team. That list of names he gave is pretty impressive, but the one that stood out to me was the one who is least likely to be with the team next season, Bradie James. The others are all current or likely future stars, but James has seen his best days pass. And yet DeMarcus singled him out. That says to me that he has been providing the leadership on the team. Leadership that is seen and appreciated by a legitimate standout and likely future Hall of Famer.
I also think that the DWare concept of leadership is much closer to the expectations of another Jason, the one with the red hair and the robotic press conference demeanor. Jason Garrett knows that you need some fire at times, I think, but I expect he places more value on the other, quieter approach, one where a group of players work together to demonstrate how it should be done, not yell and jump up and down to fire everyone else up, while, not to be forgotten, the cameras are centered on them. There is leadership, and there is showmanship. I think our society sometimes gets the two confused.
One other thing is that the quiet, work together leadership is a lot easier to continue. It can be passed on, and is something that can be learned to a great extent. The fact that Sean Lee was mentioned by DWare shows that the future will be taken care of. There will be no sudden vacuum when that one fireball suddenly retires or goes out due to injury. The torch is passed.
Having said all that, I will acknowledge that not everyone responds to things the same way, and even though I know what motivates me, I cannot speak for others. Hatcher made it clear he wants something else, some level of inspiration he is not getting right now. Some people are just that way. They will follow the right guy into anything, but they need someone to light that fire. Others are better able to find their own flame within. And I know which kind I prefer.
But I am not a football player, just a fan. So my opinion may not take everything into consideration. And the leadership issue has been discussed many times before, and Jason Hatcher is not the only one looking for something more.
It's your turn now.
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Once again,
Thanks for the amount of content our front page writers churn out on a daily basis.
And for now, mine is the only vote, so I am right.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
"Meanwhile, like a bitter wine, Philadelphia’s jealousy fermented in the dark cellars of pride and resentment. With no playoff hopes of their own, Eagles fans turned towards hating the Cowboys." Steve Sabol, NFL films
My ginger self and I will be checking this page frequently to see how Option D fairs.
Because we all love Jerry.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." -Niels Bohr
It's the off season.
Gotta have a few giggles to break the monotony.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
Why did you change your name number?
In the 17 seasons from 1966-1982, the Cowboys went at least to the conference championship game 14 times. In the 16 seasons from 1996-2011, the Cowboys have won 2 wild card games.
There are 2 Fergie's, just different #'s.
And I am unhappy about the ginger vote to, as I am one also!
Err, not 2 Fergie's, just very similar names.
The other is Fernie67.
Sorry, I was typing faster than I was thinking…..
The ginger vote was a trap to draw out the haters.
Me, I think redheads are great.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
I don't hate gingers.
They just scare the crap out of me. :) j/k
And yeah, there is Fernie67, but didn’t Fergie used to be 65, not 3108?
In the 17 seasons from 1966-1982, the Cowboys went at least to the conference championship game 14 times. In the 16 seasons from 1996-2011, the Cowboys have won 2 wild card games.
Nope, I've always been 3108.
Named after my two favorite players when I started using the internet; Roy Williams and Troy Aikman.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." -Niels Bohr
Now I am confused. I know Fernie and I recognize your avatar,
but I thought there is a Fergie with only 2 numbers after her name. Are there 3 of you?
The main reason people confuse the 2 of you is not the Fergie/Fernie thing but that both of “them” only have 2 numbers after the name.
Now my mind is blown.
In the 17 seasons from 1966-1982, the Cowboys went at least to the conference championship game 14 times. In the 16 seasons from 1996-2011, the Cowboys have won 2 wild card games.
I can't say I've ever seen another Fergie on here, but I'm not saying you're wrong.
Maybe I’ve just missed him or her around here.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." -Niels Bohr
I'm probably just wrong.
I thought you only had 2 numbers in your name.
In the 17 seasons from 1966-1982, the Cowboys went at least to the conference championship game 14 times. In the 16 seasons from 1996-2011, the Cowboys have won 2 wild card games.
I do sometimes just use Fergie31.
But not on here.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." -Niels Bohr
Aren't we?
I mean, we’re just fantastic people.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." -Niels Bohr
GINGER TEAM ASSEMBLE!!!
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." -Niels Bohr
everybody brings up Ray Lewis
and for good reason, the guy is a monster and he IS a great team leader.
now on the Giants who is there Ray Lewis, the Packers, Pats (Brady but i never really see him like Ray), Colts (Manning see Brady), Pitt?
1 more thing with Ray how many SBs has the Ravens won…..1 so that kind of leadership is great and all but that doesnt guarentee anything.
finish the Oline rebuild
by yehti on Feb 20, 2012 8:34 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Military and football, never understood that
i did both and understands some similarities. but 1 is leading a group of men in a game, the other is leading men to avoid death……
finish the Oline rebuild
by yehti on Feb 20, 2012 8:37 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I see the correlation with the two.
I see the correlation with the two. Leading a group of men to achieve excellence no matter what the condition or what the situation is. Difference in the military is your margin for failure is alot smaller with death being a serious possibility every day. Leadership is something that can come from just about anywhere in the ranks on the battlefield. I’ve seen E-4 step up in the heat of battle and lead a group of men without ever stopping to even asses the situation. Without that one E-4 this group of guys would have been slaughtered after there squad leader was down. Now on the field leadership is just as important but again can be found anywhere in the ranks. It just takes one guy one guy to stand up and take the reins and lead his group to greatness. It is important that the coaches know who that one guy is and pushes him to do what his team needs him to do. Ryan knows leadership with a mouth like his he has to. But again you can’t appoint a leader you won’t find your true leaders till the bullets start to fly. That’s when true leaders take.control.of the situation and lead you to excellence.
by Sado44 on Feb 20, 2012 9:03 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
i apologize i didnt make what i said very clear
i deff get the leaders aspect. i got caught up in what i was saying. im watching band of brothers and was thinking of when i think Antrel Rolle was saying how he goes to “war”. i didnt mean anything towards the topic it was kinda out left field with what i was saying.
finish the Oline rebuild
by yehti on Feb 20, 2012 9:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You have a good point.
I almost hate to use the military comparisons because football is so trivial compared to what the military does. But the analogies are so easy to grasp, and being military myself, I know this kind of stuff better than most topics, so I fall into it too easily.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
understand, i in no way was being critical of the post
finish the Oline rebuild
by yehti on Feb 20, 2012 11:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Tired and used but true.. Leadership starts at the top.
When Jerry hired Wade, Jerry took 10 steps back. Wade is/was not an authority figure. Wade had to manufacture intensity. It was quite obvious he wasn’t respected as hc. The team quit on him. That is on Jerry. Jerry hired another yes man. Jerry hasn’t displayed the leadership of the Crafts , Mara’s or Rooneys. Jerry doesn’t run a steady ship.
He gives out thank you contracts. He hasn’t had a plan when it comes to drafting. He hasn’t chosen the right coaches. He has at times made a mockery of the gm position. If , huge if I know but..if we could steady the f.o. , owner down to gm to the last assistant coach I think this team would benefit hugely.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
I knew I should have just left it "I hate Jerry" for you.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
Tom it wasn't a hate Jerry post.
Agree or disagree the team has been in a funk ever since Jimmy left ? Do you not desire a steady leader with a plan ? Jus sayin.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 20, 2012 9:11 PM CST up reply actions
i actually agree with your initial post
(ducks covering head watching for falling pigs and monkeys)
finish the Oline rebuild
by yehti on Feb 20, 2012 9:16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
LOL. Btw I didn't vote for d. Yet.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 20, 2012 9:24 PM CST up reply actions
Mostly, I can't resist being a smartaleck.
It’s worse on nights like tonight when I gets a little bored.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
Big Bill?
Did he not get us going back on the right track? Just sayin, good day!
by COWBOYS DIE HARD SON on Feb 21, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Spot on, Mr. Mensa.
To disagree with your post simply means you haven’t been paying attention for the last 15 years.
"Hope is not a strategy" Billy Beane
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones
Every time I read Hatcher's quotes I cringe.
One statement stands out…
everybody is held accountable, guys aren’t doing their own thing here or there.
Is he talking about himself? Is he talking about Spencer, who admittedly sloughed off? Sensabaugh? It may be that there is some truth to what Hatcher is saying. Has anyone ever talked to Spencer about his lack of hustle on occasion? Watching the dude closely the last five games of the season, he appeared to be still taking plays off.
No one condones him saying it on the radio, but I know for a fact that Spencer wasn’t giving it his all on every play. That continued right up until the end of the 2011 season. Remember Rob Ryan saying Spencer’s next game was going to be a breakout game? He said it as if he knew something. Well, Spencer didn’t have a breakout game, and shortly thereafter, I saw him half-assing it on a number of plays with my own eyes.
If Hatcher said this because he’s just undisciplined in interviews, then that’s just plain dumb. If he felt he had to get the leaders off their asses about this problem child, and his statements were calculated, or if he just let it out in frustration, then maybe there is a real problem that has to be addressed.
We have the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you don't have that, find the door.
Jason Garrett
I think that was Rob's way of trying to motivate him.
I know for a fact that Spencer wasn’t giving it his all on every play. That continued right up until the end of the 2011 season. Remember Rob Ryan saying Spencer’s next game was going to be a breakout game? He said it as if he knew something. Well, Spencer didn’t have a breakout game, and shortly thereafter, I saw him half-assing it on a number of plays with my own eyes.
Is there any doubt Spencer needs not be retained ?
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 20, 2012 9:13 PM CST up reply actions
I think that was Rob’s way of trying to motivate him.
Or…Rob pulled Spencer off to the side, and had a talk with him. He got Spencer to commit to giving 110% out there, so Rob makes the public statement that Spencer is going to have a breakout game.
If Spencer can put up the numbers he does taking plays off, imagine what the guy is capable of if he would just give it as much as he has to give. But to me that’s the problem. 80% is all he has. It’s just speculation on my part, but something is going on on the defense that Hatcher doesn’t like.
What if Hatcher really cares? What if someone or some guys ARE a problem? When I first heard about this I was fuming. But the more I think about it, I think there’s something real going on that Hatcher feels no one is addressing.
We have the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you don't have that, find the door.
Jason Garrett
I too was upset.
What if Hatcher really cares? What if someone or some guys ARE a problem? When I first heard about this I was fuming. But the more I think about it, I think there’s something real going on that Hatcher feels no one is addressing.
Now I agree with you since I have taken the time to think it out.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 20, 2012 9:28 PM CST up reply actions
If Hatcher really cared and thought some guys are a problem
then he should have stepped up and “led” and said something to the guys he is talking about. Or if he is too much of a wimp to do that, then he should have asked someone he looks up to to do it. You cannot tell me that there is not one single guy on that team (or defense if that’s all he’s talking about) that he does not look up to.
The last thing he should do is nothing. And then whine on the radio when that idiot Sanders asks him a leading/loaded question.
In the 17 seasons from 1966-1982, the Cowboys went at least to the conference championship game 14 times. In the 16 seasons from 1996-2011, the Cowboys have won 2 wild card games.
We don't disagree on your point.
I actually said that in my first, and second, and third, and fourth, etc comments on this topic the last few days. Even in my first comment in this thread. My point is that I’ve gone beyond the anger of it, and now I’m just speculating on who he’s talking about. Not the leadership person(s), but who is doing “their own thing.”
We have the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you don't have that, find the door.
Jason Garrett
Or...
it’s just Hatcher’s perception. How many people do we know in the world of work who see things completely differently than everyone else? The negative people who like to point fingers and blame others, or complain about things that really are imaginary or trivial?
Don't believe everything you think.
Well...
“Hatcher made it clear he wants something else, some level of inspiration he is not getting right now…”
If this is true Mr. Hatcher, I have good news and bad news.
The good news, I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico.
The bad news, we’re cuting your ass/trading you to Cleveland…they have zero hall of famers, and zero chance of winning anything for the next 5 years. Go see what it’s really like playing without leaders before you fire your mouth off.-That’s how Rohpuri would handle it.
As it stands, you just became the Mike Vanderjagt of this team, as in, now you better make plays when your name is called. If not see yah.
Players like Hatcher need to know their roles, and shut their mouths; I believe The Rock once said that. Jason Hatchers are fungible in the NFL.
Tag Team name for Sean Lee and Bruce Carter is RUSH HOUR
by Rohpuri on Feb 20, 2012 9:06 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Why are you giving this story more fuel for the fire?
Do you HATE the Dallas Cowboys? Do you HATE America? Are you a COMMUNIST?
We start nothing here at BTB, well, for the most part.
We just take what’s out there and run with it. And since we do this for fun, we tend to go with things we can have fun with.
Plus, as much we all hate to admit it, we love to dish on this kind of stuff.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
You did omit any supportive response in the poll
Sorry to rain on your parade but those who support Ware’s viewpoint lack an option. It does not follow that leadership means lack of talent.
I thought the second option supported Ware.
It was meant to. And I was just trying to indicate the obvious issues the team does have as the reason for lack of success, rather than the team being rudderless.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
No doubt Tom is a commie.
His hammer and sickle tat says it all.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 20, 2012 9:35 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, come on.
I’m way to much of a wimp to get a tat.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
Gotta use the @ symbol before and after your comment.
Otherwise someone might get the impression you’re serious.
For me, when DeMarcus makes a public statement about Hatcher’s comments, BTB has to cover it.
We have the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you don't have that, find the door.
Jason Garrett
LOL. Me thinks Tom is the tyop who would never get a tat.....but ya never know.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 20, 2012 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
Edit (type)
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 20, 2012 9:43 PM CST up reply actions
Ya got that right.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
Tom there are 2 things I could never picture you doing....
getting a tat and noodling…
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 20, 2012 9:44 PM CST up reply actions
I got the build for noodling . . .
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
Give it a try and post pics.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 20, 2012 9:56 PM CST up reply actions
Did not say I was sticking my hand in no fish mouth parts.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
And people die doing that.
They drown when they can’t get the catfish out from under the rock and it won’t let go of their arm. SMH.
In the 17 seasons from 1966-1982, the Cowboys went at least to the conference championship game 14 times. In the 16 seasons from 1996-2011, the Cowboys have won 2 wild card games.
You realize I was replying to Starlover, right?
We have the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you don't have that, find the door.
Jason Garrett
I do now , lol
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Feb 20, 2012 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
Ahhh…is that the infamous sarcasm font?
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 20, 2012 10:00 PM CST up reply actions
Indeed it is.
When I start calling folks Communists, I do it with flair.
We have the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you don't have that, find the door.
Jason Garrett
I'm expecting those that criticized Hatcher to also criticize Ware.
After all, he shouldn’t be saying anything about the team dynamics to the media. Isn’t that what we all decided?
by Baked Potato Soup on Feb 20, 2012 9:20 PM CST reply actions
You surely do have a chip on your shoulder. You don't see the difference between throwing
someone under a bus and defending yourself and other players? But since you want to be literal in the most exaggerated way, here you go:
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/2/20/2812784/demarcus-wares-reaction-to-jason-hatcher
Keep. It. In. House. Satisfied?
And I ask again, who specifically did Hatcher throw under the bus?
I might have missed it, so what players did he name?
by Baked Potato Soup on Feb 20, 2012 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
Who didn't he throw under the bus? Now aren't you going to give me some love for
being consistent? No?
Sure.
But it’s ironic that you said I have a chip on my shoulder. I haven’t been the one displaying vitriol toward a player for a fairly innocuous statement regarding leadership.
The weird thing is that I have seen many, many times on this board that this team needs a Michael Irvin or Darren Woodson type leader, and it wasn’t met with nearly the heat that a player saying basically the same thing has created.
by Baked Potato Soup on Feb 21, 2012 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
I guess I don't find it "innocuous." I'm actually surprised that you say you
find it so, given that you said you’re pleased he said it (did you not?). That implies that you not only agree, but you think it’s important that he air out the team’s dirty laundry, if there is any. As to your second point, what is said on a blog by fans is not the same thing as a player saying it; hasn’t that been YOUR point? That what players say is more consequential than what we or the press say? I don’t doubt that Hatcher thinks he needs someone to motivate him because he’s incapable of doing it himself and that he doesn’t feel anyone on the team is doing it for him. I always think it’s a shame that grown-ass men getting paid a fortune need someone to yell at them to get them to do their jobs, but it is what it is. I wonder what would happen if I told my boss that I needed a kick in the pants to motivate me. Either way, I just believe that, instead of discussing it with Sanders, he should discuss it either with his teammates or with Jerry Jones if he thinks the Cowboys need to import a team leader with a loud voice.
I don't have to wonder Fernie
I wonder what would happen if I told my boss that I needed a kick in the pants to motivate me.
my boss would give me a “kick in the pants”…right out the door…..
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Feb 21, 2012 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks for pointing out the obvious inconsistencies by so many in this discussion.
I love the complete denial that leadership would be necessary in a group of 60 men.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011
by Realist Larry on Feb 21, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
I HATE GINGERS! And Jerry Jones sucks as a GM too!
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 20, 2012 10:07 PM CST reply actions
Dont get me wrong.
I think JJ is one of the best if not best Owners in the NFL. But he is not the best GM. Why would JJ even waste his time being GM of the Cowboys, when he could just as easily pay someone else who is better at it than he is?
He’s learning, I’ll give him that. And that’s one of the reasons were seeing a triumvirate in the decision making process. Jerry ain’t that far behind ‘ole Al D in years. Don’t let the face lifts fool ya.
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 20, 2012 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
Jerruh doesn't "waste" his time being GM.
He loves it. He admitted that he bought the team so he could “play” with it. It is a toy to him. It is his real life FF team.
In the 17 seasons from 1966-1982, the Cowboys went at least to the conference championship game 14 times. In the 16 seasons from 1996-2011, the Cowboys have won 2 wild card games.
Is Cowboys player leadership delivering results? Isn't that the $120 million dollar question?
You make great points Tom about different styles of leadership. Won’t you agree that regardless of style, leadership is ultimately judged based on results? Heading into the 2006 playoffs legions of fans and coach Bill Parcells thought the team was poised for a Super Bowl run. Since that breakout season, the same core group of players has produced 1 playoff victory. Theories for the team’s inconsistency since that 2006 season have included trips to Cabo (travelling leadership), Terrell Owens (toxic leadership), Wade Phillips (aw shucks leadership), and most recently quiet leadership. Wade and Terrell are gone. So however you want to describe or perceive the leadership style of James, Ware, Witten, and Romo, has their leadership produced the results we all expected from this group?
by jerry_jones_killed_our_cowboys on Feb 20, 2012 11:12 PM CST reply actions
Not YET.
Would be my homer answer…thank you very much!
But given time to evolve through the RHG – ‘Process’ with input from SJ. JJ, Scouting, et al. we will be in better position to contend in the future.
I thought we could do it in 2013, but that is looking less realistic.
by StarloverinWNC on Feb 20, 2012 11:36 PM CST up reply actions
The results are 8-8.
Not near what I expect as a life long fan. Too bad that mediocrity has become the recurring theme with this team.
last question is not directed at you Tom.
Should read however people want to describe or perceive leadership… Great article!
by jerry_jones_killed_our_cowboys on Feb 20, 2012 11:17 PM CST reply actions
How can someone hate
gingers when one created Bryce Dallas Howard?
by BrickTop on Feb 20, 2012 11:21 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I really like JJ the owner
I really “HATE” JJ the general manager.
We have no Michael Irvin who would lay it all on the line.He would refuse to lose and would pump upthe team on the sideline.
That Cold day in Philly the Boys lost thier heart and there hasn’t been one like him since.
Jerry has hired a succession of poor coaches(yes men).Maybe Parcells wasn’t but he had enough and left.
Garrett,who knows, we may find out from now to the draft.
The leader on the D is Rat.Untill they get some more players with a little fire we will have the same defeatist attitude that has permeated this team since Parcells left.
by TCB Orange Dino on Feb 20, 2012 11:48 PM CST reply actions
Great post Tom, and hats off on your knowledge of Patton, my all-time favorite
If you are going to use the military as the example, I’d had to take it a step further. The fiery, in-your-face leadership we’re talking about was needed because the troops Patton was leading needed to be pushed. They were far less experienced (or even trained) than their German opponents and most of them had to be “fired up” to stay aggressive perform at their best. The NFL is elite – elite talent (except Eli), elite competitors, elite training, elite motivation, elite incentives. So in a military sense, they would be more like Special Forces. And that SOF world, there’s typically a very different sort of leadership called for, something that looks a lot more like the leading by example and quiet professionalism Garrett is instilling.
If Hatcher is looking for someone to kick his butt, it says a lot more about him than it does about the team.
Don't believe everything you think.
by dunkman on Feb 21, 2012 7:31 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Very well said.
I tried implying this on the other Hatcher article but did not say it as well as you. Rec’d!
In the 17 seasons from 1966-1982, the Cowboys went at least to the conference championship game 14 times. In the 16 seasons from 1996-2011, the Cowboys have won 2 wild card games.
As I stated before, leadership means different things to different people
You ask 10 players or fans what leadership means and what defines a leader, you’re going to get get 10 different answers.
Leadership is basically a meaningless concept in sports until you have enough talent to compete with other talented teams because leaders simply can’t make players more talented, they can only get them to play to the best of their ability which obviously isn’t good enough sometimes as we have witnessed lately with the Cowboys.
IMO, the Cowboys don’t have a leadership problem because the team plays hard and determined every game, the problem is they aren’t simply good enough in certain key positions. It’s really that simple.
In Romo we Trust
"leaders simply can’t make players more talented,"
Spoken like a person who’s never lead a group of men.
by Sharksbreath on Feb 21, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
Thank you, Sharksbreath.
Having been in a fairly high stress manegement position for over 20 years, those who say things like that, or those who make statements that indicate leadership is overrated, or useless have never had to take a given group and get them to perform at a higher level of expectation to achieve certain goals that would not have otherwise been possible, whatever the particular ends, have no concept of what the term “Leadership” means. If leadership and effective management were so overrated, why do all sports teams have coaches/managers, why are ther layers of leadership in every military organization in the world? Why does every business in the world layer themselves with a management/leadership structure?
Nothing personal Terry, but it is very far from “Just that simple”. Very Far.
Well, I was not going to reply to Sharksbreath, but now I will.
As a former naval officer, I will say that there is a difference between a leader making people achieve the best that they can and a leader making an athlete play better.
The difference is that a leader can bring out the best performance in people in the areas of training, knowledge, systems, safety, quality control, motivation, group dynamics, etc.
But there is one thing that a leader absolutely can not do and will never be able to do. That is to make a person have more physical athletic ability than they possess. You can yell or scream or rant and rave or “lead by example” or teach, coach and inspire until your face turns blue, but if a person does not have the physical ability to execute the task at hand, they will fail.
An inferior person can “win” in business by being smarter and using technology. An inferior person can “win” in battle by being better trained and using better weapons. An Inferior person will not “win” on the football field because it is a physical match up.
Business leadership and military leadership have absolutely nothing to do with with a professional sports athlete’s ability. You can lead an athlete to perform at the maximum of his ability, but his opponent can still defeat him by being more athletically gifted or bigger than him.
Here is an extreme example: Think of weight classes in boxing and wrestling. Do you think the best led feather weight can beat the worst led heavy weight?
Therefore, it is true
leaders simply can’t make players more talented
In the 17 seasons from 1966-1982, the Cowboys went at least to the conference championship game 14 times. In the 16 seasons from 1996-2011, the Cowboys have won 2 wild card games.
Leadership, et al...
I rarely post because of work, but I read almost everything you all write on here and appreciate the massive undertaking. However, leadership is something that I have to tee off on because it is my business.
These two “types” of leaders you are discussing are NOT mutually exclusive. In fact, I would argue that unless you can point to examples where each of the Generals demonstrated the other techniques they may both be lacking in some way (I’m trying to keep this short, but there are definitely examples of Eisenhower being a fiery in-your-face leader). If D-Ware feels “his” type of leadership is enough, that is a problem. Likewise for Hatcher. I actually think Romo is starting to get it because there are examples of Romo being more in-your-face this past season than before.
A true professional can lead for today AND tomorrow. Think of it like this, back in the 90’s Irvin was seen as the in-your-face guy (as the rest of the triplets were at times), but he also mentored guys before and after practice, came early and left late, and worked on route running with Aikman until the sun went down. But when the chips were down and it was Sunday, he had no problem busting someones butt because they weren’t putting out.
Wish I could get on to post more, but I wanted to send my appreciation for all the work you do.
Not sure I agree entirely
true leaders come in all forms. To use Tomo’s analogy, Ike was a true leader, but with a style exactly appropriate for the organization and people he was called upon to lead. He likely would have been inferior to Patton in pushing young troops and driving aggressiveness in subordinate commanders. Patton, conversely, was wholly unfit for Ike’s level of command. What works well for a drill sergeant might fail completely for a division staff.
At this level of pro football, being up in someone’s grill may be needed by some players, but probably not all or even most.
Don't believe everything you think.
You are discounting that those men CHOSE thier leadership techniques...
Dunk,
My point in continuing Tom’s Ike and Patton history discussion was merely to outline the different leadership styles. Not to say one didn’t or COULDN’T (or more importantly when getting back to the Cowboy’s discussion) have both techniques. ALL GOOD LEADERS can use multiple techniques when necessary… if you are a “one trick pony” you either beat people into submission so they quit working for you OR you always seem to be planning for downstream events and never focused on the here-and-now. Honestly, these one-trick-ponies tend to get weeded out of the military via some method (i.e. not promoted or summarily beaten in a battle at some point).
Getting back to football, you can and should be able to “nuture” from behind the scenes or mentor (or whatever touchy-feely word you wanna put here) but also jump in players faces who need it, when they need it. It’s about applying a hammer when there is a nail and wrency when there is a bolt.
If all you have is a hammer, then EVERYTHING looks like a nail to you. But if you have both then you can wrench at the right times AND when a knucklehead NAIL comes along (i.e. Hatcher) then you hit it very hard with a hammer. :)
Right and no person is
really that two-dimensional. But every leader has his or her own style and they can all be effective doing it in a way that works within their personality. Garrett doesn’t have to scream or foam at the mouth if he’s the type who can get results through calm but stern interaction. I had many successful commanders who motivated me through a desire to perform well for them rather than fear of lossing my a$$. Ike was no push-over, he was just less demonstrative and volatile. Hatcher may like that style better, but it doesn’t mean there isn’t leadership on the team, just none that fits his expectations.
This is at the heart of Garrett’s quest for RKGs and former team captains – guys who are mature and self-motivated. Same guys we want in the service (but don’t of course always get). Garrett doesn’t even want guys who have to be cajoled or ripped to perform. He wants guys who motivate each other to perform and compete with each other to be better. That’s the ldeal organizational construct anyway – internally imposed discipline and accountability. If you need Ray Lewis barking, you probably have too many slackers on your roster.
Don't believe everything you think.
ahhh... so RKG is what's important here then
Ok, I’m mostly just amusing myself now, but you are intimating that Garret is looking to fill the roster with dudes who can be led by a certain kind of leadership style or perhaps even DONT NEED TO BE LED. That’s a unique view. What I’m saying is IF you could populate your roster with all those guys you would have quite an amazing roster. But I don’t think you will be able to. I would guess folks would say something like “New England self-motivates…” but I would argue Tedy Bruschi was damn good at chewing ass on the field when he needed to. Plus if you haven’t read about the way BB treats every player in the film room, you really need to.
Anyway, I enjoyed the discussion regardless. It hit home with me because of a recent anecdote at work. A number of years ago, in a previous tour as a Department Head I tended to labeled as a screamer (perfect for Hatcher, I would guess), but now that I’m in Command noone sees me that way. Just recently had one of my old BM’s check in here and he walked around lightly and all the folks here were like “what’s up with you?” The fact that I was ever a screamer gave them all a chuckle. Your actions as a leader can be driven by necessity. Thanks for the give and take… hopefully I can get back on from time to time.
Great points
Yes, I think that’s exactly what Garrett wants. I used the SOF analogy because it’s precisely what they do – nothing but hand-selected, highly competitve, top-in-their-field and overall more mature group. They seldom (but not never) need anyone screaming, and they push each other. Hard to get there, but like SOF, it’s starts with the selection process because you’ll never get a guy like TO to change his style for the good of the organization.
Congrats on command. Just don’t run aground. I hear the Navy HATES that.
Don't believe everything you think.
Not CO of a ship and...
Follow my SB nation profile to the facebook link and check out the video if you wanna see what I have Command of.
Dude, that is cool.
And thanks for your service.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
And yerah, I guess you will definitely be OK occasionally running aground....
Don't believe everything you think.
How are you a fan of all the other philly teams???
In the 17 seasons from 1966-1982, the Cowboys went at least to the conference championship game 14 times. In the 16 seasons from 1996-2011, the Cowboys have won 2 wild card games.
I know, I saw that too....
I thought, thank God for the intervention that steered him clear of the Evil Empire….
Don't believe everything you think.
100% with you as well Navybill.
In my civilian career, it sounds like we went through some of the same transitions, and YES, a leader can, and if he is an effective leader HAS to be two dimensional, at least when the occasion demands it.
This has been a great discussion.
My treatment of leadership was a bit either/or in nature, but that was partly due to the length constraints we work with. But sometimes, like here, the comment threads bring in better stuff than we write in the articles, and that is another way of getting the job done. So thanks to all.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
man this discussion is frustrating. Question for Tom:
You say that Hatcher wants a “Hatcher seems to want that rah-rah, blood and guts, go-out-and-stomp-the-other-team kind of leader.” You talk about guys jumping up and down screaminmg and yelling. An overly Emotional approach.
NOWHERE does Hatcher say that. Where are you getting that? This is a common false argument from those here who want to deny that leadership has a role on a football tteam.
In your analogy, both Ike and Patton were great leaders, with their different styles. But they were leaders, right?
Using the military analogy, and this has been said many times by players and coaches in interviews, etc. Not just my opinion:
Coaches need players, guys who’ve been around a few years and are good players, to take a leadership role on the team. The HC is like a general and cannot see everything and be everywhere. The assist. coaches are closer to the action, like a Captain. But the real leaders are the Sargeants, and in this analogy that would be the role the players would fill. It’s not about screaming and yelling, altho at times that may be appropiate. It’s about accountability, exactly what Hatcher addresses.
If a player is making mental mistakes, not focused, getting down when there’s still time left, getting overly excited about a lead when there’s time left, causing dissension, not paying attention to coaches, that’s when other players need to step in, someone with perceived authority, and talk to that guy.
No one, not Hatcher especially, is calling jumping up and down and screaming Leadership. That arguments never been made.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011
It's more than implied
His example is Ray Lewis, the epitome of screaming motivation.
like the Ravens, we don’t have that. We’ve got the talent. We’ve got everything we need. I think we get like a Ray Lewis, like, everybody buy into him.
Secondly, what most people are complaining about is a guy who is highly paid, top-of-line world-class athlete saying someone else needs to hold him accountable. Really? Mr Grown-up, millionaire, elite athlete needs someone holding him accountable?
Don't believe everything you think.
yes they do. More so than ever. You don't have to like that but it's a fact.
A lot of spoiled guys who’ve been feted for the last ten years, sailed through college w/fake classes. You read the papers about all the off-field stuff right? What jerks these guys are/
You’ve watched TO and PacMan sail through Big D?
Once they get their paychecks a lot of these guys need to be motivated. I don’t even think that’s arguable.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011
by Realist Larry on Feb 21, 2012 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
Of course it's arguable
since we don’t know these men, and being human, all are different. You’ve just stereotyped a class of athletes and used that as your case for why they need someone to yell at them. I don’t disagree that the most effective motivation comes from peers, but I reject the idea that there is one and only one right way to deliver that. As I said above, I think the whole idea behind Garrett wanting smart, hard working, former team capatains is to create that exact culture. But it doesn’t take Ray Lewis. If you need Ray Lewis you probably failed to get the RKGs and it’s better to ditch them.
I don’t believe under the Wade regime that much thought was put into character, and the results were obvious. I think you’ll see the reverse of that in the coiming years.
Don't believe everything you think.
Never ever ever haver I mentioned RLewis. he's too unique to keep mentioning.
But nowhere in the NFL is there a team where all 60 guys are independently motivated. that ‘class of athlete’ is on every team, in different %‘s.
That’s not arguable.
I didn’t say they were all like that.
Also, never mentioned yelling, that’s a false argument those who don’t believe leadership makes a difference keep putting out there. No one’s saying leadership means yelling all the time!
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011
by Realist Larry on Feb 21, 2012 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
Are you kidding?
The entire post was about Ray Lewis. Hatcher used Ray Lewis. Tom discussed Ray Lewis-like attributes based on Hatcher’s commentary to which Ware responded. That’s the thread here. Hence Ray Lewis, hence yelling, hence that style of leadership. So yes, someone IS saying that. Hatcher. And Ware’s saying it’s not the style of leaders Dallas has or needs. If you’re making a different point, great, but you missed the one this whole article was discussing.
Don't believe everything you think.
yes, I'm making another point, that's it not all or nothing
that it’s not Scream In Your Face, or, there’s no such thing as leadership.
People are putting down the Rah Rah type of more visible leadership, (which is limited in its effectiveness), but then jumping 20 steps and saying that therefore there’s no such thing as Leadership in the NFL.
Which is wrong.
I’ve heard countless times former players and coaches talk about the importance of leadership among players and “accountability”, exactly what Hatcher references.
And Ray Lewis is known on a superficial level as this really vocal type of leader.
But really his effect is much more like that of MJ in basketball-a demand from his teammates that they strive for their best at every moment, from practice on through every moment of every game.
That is what MIrving was really about too-not the yelling and visible sideline antics-but the pressure he, Aikman, and Emmitt put on their teammates to not take plays off, not even take practices off, and that every little detail counts.
That’s leadership. And it is lacking in Big D right now, although some players certainly strive for that.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011
by Realist Larry on Feb 22, 2012 11:41 PM CST up reply actions
Like Dunk said, it came from that quote.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
Dude. That's one line out of a lot, and only an inference.
Here’s your false, inflammatory language:
"rah-rah, blood and guts, go-out-and-stomp-the-other-team "
He never says anything close to that.
Here’s his word: “accountable”
Those are light years apart. You are perceiving his comments through your own lense and twisting them.
This article says tons about you, very little about Hatcher.
By the way, I too am a student of WWII and agree with your points about different styles (Just read a WSJ article about Ike and how he’s more and more perceived as a great president).
But in the end, both were needed to some extent, altho we all know Patton was out on the extreme end of the spectrum.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011
by Realist Larry on Feb 21, 2012 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
Hey, I use hyperbole with the best of them.
By the way, ever read Ike by Michael Korda? Great book if you want to know more about Eisenhower.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
Haven't read it, can't say I read a lot of biographies.
He was a great man in his own quiet way. Wish we had more leaders like that.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011
by Realist Larry on Feb 22, 2012 11:34 PM CST up reply actions
Hatcher is right, Ware is wrong.
Every fan knows it, it has been obvious for years. No EFFECTIVE leadership from the players, the coaches OR the front office. You can’t fix the problem if you don’t acknowledge the problem.
"Hope is not a strategy" Billy Beane
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones
"Hatcher is right, Ware is wrong"
I don’t think that sentence is ever true.
by BrickTop on Feb 21, 2012 2:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
This time it is.
If Brady James is a leader on your team you have a serious problem.
by Sharksbreath on Feb 21, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
This not being a class on epistemology, IMO ( like EVERYTHING written on this blog)
it is TRUE.
"Hope is not a strategy" Billy Beane
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones
Hatcher has no room to talk.
It was just brought up to me, and I had forgotten, that Hatcher didn’t go to Tony Romo’s offseason camp, unlike most players who did. Maybe if he had he would’ve seen the leaders he was looking for.
@stubabe how do you know Hatcher is right? What proof do you have of that? Unless you are in the huddle, you can’t know. Character, heart, leadership aren’t things that can be proven.
And yes, I would take Ware’s opinion over Hatcher’s.
"Jay Ratliff is always pissed off. I really wish he could play offense line and kick Justin Tuck's @@S."
Because Ware is a better player?
Forget about Ware and Hatcher. Has this team shown a distinct lack of leadership throughout the ENTIRE organization, from off the field decisions to game time player enthusiasm for the last umpteen years? A resounding yes. It’s the biggest intangible the team lacks. All you need do is look at the team of the nineties and watch Jimmy coach and Irvin and Aikman lead. It is a very stark contrast. Unless this intangible is dealt with, mediocrity will continue.
"Hope is not a strategy" Billy Beane
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones
And to put in my two cents one more time, Stubabe,
I agree with your thoughts about lack of leadership on this team, it is all too obvious. We have many other problems on the Cowboys, but leadership, or the lack thereof, is one of the most glaring, and lead to a lot of the other issues we have
It starts with Jerry.
He isn’t a steady kind of guy. Too many off the cuff decisions. He was too smug with the 09 draft. He isn’t gm material.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
Mensa, I do not agree with a lot of what you say,
And think you are way over the top sometimes, but I think you are actualy letting JJ off the hook a little too easy here. WOW, LOL I can’t believe I just said that ot you ;0. There are quite a few things I really like about JJ the owner, but I really do not like JJ the GM. One of the worst things about JJ the owner is his choice of GM for the Cowboys, but that is beating a long dead horse.
Although I am cautiously optimistic about what has been happening since the train wreck that was the 2009 draft
But true leadership starts at the top, which not coincedentely is where the root of the Cowboy problems start.
JMHO, and as always, YMMV
Agree with you as usual, Mensa
And for those (and there are legions) fans who think JG is going to be “processing” without Jerruh being involved up to his
toupee’, think again. I said several weeks ago, whatever JG’s plan is (the process) it will always be trumped by the capricious machinations of one Jerry (GM) Jones. I accept the possibility, possibility mind you, that JG will prove to be different, will change the culture and actually establish a new way of playing the game. Would I bet on it? No way. But by the start of the coming season we fans will have a pretty clear idea of how much change took place, and an idea of the acceptance by Jerruh of future change. If JG is serious about winning (I assume he is) there needs to be wholesale changes at every level of the organization some of which I understand he cannot control. So he better be REAL successful with the changes he can control. Let’s start with playcalling.
"Hope is not a strategy" Billy Beane
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones






























