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Around SBN: Holy War Week Brings out the Worst in Fans

Mavs Mortgage Future for Jason Kidd

I'm sure most of you have heard, and I am aware that this is a football blog, but I can't contain this.
The Mavs are sending Devin Harris, DeSagana Diop, Devean George, Maurice Ager, 2 first round picks and Jerry Stackhouse (who will almost certainly be bought out by NJ and re-signed by Dallas) to the Nets in exchange for Jason Kidd and Malik Allen.
It's not just the desperate, win-now move that pisses me off. It's the fact that this move doesn't even accomplish that aim. Kidd's slowing down. He can't score anymore, his shooting percentage is ghastly. He can't keep up with most point guards defensively. He still dishes out assists with the best of them and rebounds at an unprecedented level for his position, but I'm not sure he's any more effective than Devin at this point of his career. He's also ten years older.
In addition, this kills our depth. Nick Fazekas is going to be a fixture here. I wouldn't be surprised to see Reyshawn Terry recalled from wherever he is in Europe.
GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.

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Why Cuban?

Why?

This is a panic move

by coolaid on Feb 13, 2008 5:16 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

I'm not even a Mavs fan really (though I do generally like them), and this is nearly an incomprehensible trade for me.  Pure panic move.  Unlike Phoenix, the Mavs have a young-ish core and didn't need to go this route.  We'll see how it turns out.  Stats say no, but Kidd's leadership is hard to quantify.

by grapejoos on Feb 13, 2008 7:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I'm a longtime Suns fan...

... and unlike the general public, I love the addition of Shaq.

Why?

Because Phoenix can still win without him in the regular season, will still make the playoffs, don't need O'Neal to log that many minutes, don't need O'Neal to score, and now will finally have a legitimate big-bodied experienced center to matchup with the likes of Tim Duncan (SA), Carlos Boozer (Utah), and now Pau Gasol (Lakers) in the highly competitive Western Conference.

What has pissed me off the past few seasons is that my Suns get to the playoffs only to lose in one of the rounds prior to reaching the Finals.  And it's always the same problem.  In the playoffs, opponents slow the game down into mostly half court sets, and Phoenix never had a big body to defend inside.  Sorry, but Amare is not a true center... and now he can play his natural power forward position and the Suns have a better chance of winning the West.

Plus, as much as I love da Matrix, with keeping him and backup PG Banks, I just didn't see Phoenix even getting close to reaching the Finals with that status quo roster (prior to the trade for the Big Aristotle).

Regarding the Mavs, I agree that this was a pure panic attempt.  I say that because as of this morning, Devean George blocked the trade because he exercised his Larry Bird rights within his contract.  Maybe that'll get Cuban to reconsider, because Dallas can win with that current roster... plus they've got so much young talent for the next few years.  And they'll have more cap room with Stackhouse's expiring contract by season's end.  I mean, they came darn-near close to winning the Finals almost two years ago with practically the same cast of characters.  

Why break up the nucleus and the potential future?  

Yes, Harris is injured, but they can still win until he gets back... and they've proven that they can win in the playoffs with that crew.

I'll always be grateful to Mr. Cuban for giving up on Steve Nash... who of course went on to EARN back-to-back MVP awards.

Now, if the Phoenix Suns can just win an NBA Title in my lifetime...

www.xanga.com/five11nation

by kcbrett5 on Feb 14, 2008 9:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I haven't watched a Mavericks game all year

After last year's collapse after one of the greatest regular seasons ever, I just could not stomach it anymore.

I guess that means I am more of a Cowboys fan then, since I will always stick by them.  

Oh yeah.  5 championships.  That helps.

You find out life's this game of inches, so is football. Because in either game - life or football - the margin for error is so small.

by Brandon Worley on Feb 13, 2008 5:17 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

really,what are they giving up?

my main downside of this trade is that stackhouse is coming back. No team will ever win anything with him playing crunch time minutes. He cant shoot, he is TO prone and plays matador defense.

People are all up in arms about devin harris. For a top 5 pick, the guy has been a major bust. His shot is funky, thus will never be consistent. This is consider ed his breakout year and he averages what 5.5 assists a game? Kidd has that by halftime.

Check the dmn blog to see the supposed defensive stopper devin harris' work on the top west pg. Lets not forget he was abused by baron davis last year.

Kidd can rebound, he can defend the bigger point guards like deron,baron and smaller 2 guards. He plays the passing lines better than anyone and he is still a triple double machine.

Look how well stockton played til late in his career.

by MysterD on Feb 13, 2008 7:11 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Devin a bust?

Look at where this team has been without him. Completely and utterly lost. He creates evertyhing for them. He's the only penetrator, a decent enough passer, great athleticism. I could name you dozens of top 5 picks off the top of my head who brought less to the table after this length of time.
And if you think Kidd is going to defend guys as fast as Deron Williams or Baron Davis.. I pray you're correct, but I don't see it.
He's not Stockton. Stockton was a skinny little guy, Kidd's an oversized PG. Different games, different career trajectories. Will he still be useful in two years? Yes. Will he have value? Not really.
But this is what worries me.
My question is this: If Devin Harris doesn't get injured a week and a half ago, does this happen? I think not.
If the Mavs don't embarrass themselves in front of Philadelphia and Detroit, does this happen? I don't believe so.
And that's what irks me. This isn't a move done in the best interests of the team. Kidd isn't going to take the Mavericks over the top any more than Harris would. He's thirty-five, and even a physical freak like him declines at that advanced stage. Exceptions only occur with the inclusion of Brian McNamee into the picture. For this player, the Mavs dealt a rising star ten years younger and three members of their rotation (Although Stack will probably be back in a month).
What's that? We also gave up any minute chance to add good young players in the next two years?
EXPLETIVE

http://heartbreakplex.blogspot.com/

by Or Moyal on Feb 13, 2008 7:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

first round picks in the 20's

is a crapshoot and josh howard proves that.

nba draft isnt the nfl draft.

by MysterD on Feb 13, 2008 8:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This was a great trade

for the Mavs. Jason Kidd will give this team what it was missing.

The Beast of the East is back!!!!

by Cowboys81 on Feb 13, 2008 7:51 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Trade is dead for now

George exercised a veto, so now it's stalled.  Cuban was quoted as saying that he didn't think it would go through even before that happened.  Weird.

by grapejoos on Feb 13, 2008 8:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry to say that I still see it happening

Devean freaking George is not going to hold up a trade of this magnitude unless his actions were motivated by a plea from a sobering Cuban.
If Cubes wants to get this deal done, he can. Very easily. Hey, Nets, you want Trenton Hassell? Berea? Another second rounder? Take it.
It would be incredibly awkward for this team to play with Devin now. They've basically declared that they don't have confidence in him anymore. Could this have the same effect that Kobe putting down Andrew Bynum enacted? I don't think so. This isn't player-to-player. It's management stating that they don't believe they can win with this player.

http://heartbreakplex.blogspot.com/

by Or Moyal on Feb 13, 2008 10:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Huge Nets fan here. Mixed feelings.

I'm a Nets fan back to the Dr. J days, and I have mixed feelings about the trade.
 
I love Jason Kidd. He rebounds like no other guard, passes like no one else, and is a triple double threat every single day. He made New Jersey winners when he came here.
 
I'm also disappointed because the team really came together the last three games, with center Nenad Krstic's return. With starters such as Krstic, Josh Boone, Richard Jefferson, Vince Carter and Kidd, the Nets were solid. Rookie Sean Williams ("Swat"), a Houston native, really has looked great as a high-energy reserve. Boki Nachbar, Darrell Armstrong, Stromile Swift, and Marcus Williams gave them a potentially good bench. They looked to be a sleeper playoff team.
 
The deal is basically Jason Kidd for Devin Harris, two #1s, and cash. I'm not sold on Harris, but he's ten years younger and can team with Marcus Williams and Armstrong at the point.
 
Kidd is Kidd, however, and he's got a few years left. So again, mixed feelings.

Texas slang in a Big Apple minute, by a friendly OED consultant. http://www.barrypopik.com

by barrypopik on Feb 14, 2008 2:25 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Rod Thorn is very, very smart

And if this trade does eventually go through, the Nets will have ROBBED Mark Cuban and the Mavs and be set with young talent for the next few years... plus have cap room after Stackhouse's contract expires at season's end.

www.xanga.com/five11nation

by kcbrett5 on Feb 14, 2008 9:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand why people hate this...

Devin Harris is an AVERAGE starting PG right now. He's not on Jason Kidd's level.

Devin Harris has played inconsistently well for about 2 months now, and people think he should be untouchable...

Devin Harris isn't a leader. He's not a floor general at the PG position. He still needs Avery Johnson to hold his hand throughout the game calling plays and making decisions offensively... Devin may turn out to be an All-Star caliber PG, but Dirk and Josh are in their primes RIGHT NOW. This team can't sit around and hope Devin Harris turns into what they think he can be 2 or 3 years down the road. By then, Dirk and Josh and JET will all be on the downside, and the window will have all but closed.

This team has been flat and unmotivated all season long. The locker room needs a shakeup, they need a veteran presence to come in here and rejuvenate everyone, and Jason Kidd does just that. Every player in the NBA would kill to play with Jason, he's that good. He will make this team better, and Dallas is not done dealing if this thing goes through.

If Jerry Stackhouse is bought out and brought back to Dallas, the deal is basically Harris and a bunch of spare parts. It's a WIN for Dallas. Nobody cares about picks in the late 20's in the NBA draft.

by N41D on Feb 14, 2008 8:40 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Average?

Read John Hollinger on ESPN.com. He's come up with a stat to gauge a player's offensive production per minute on the floor; his efficiency at using the time he's given to contribute. At last check Devin was 5th amongst all Point Guards. Keep in mind that he's a better defensive player than he is an offensive one.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. Harris has taken big steps forward since being handed the undisputed reins to the starting job. And for the PRESENT, I like this team better with Devin on it than with Jason Kidd.
You tell me that I'm also going to part with my first round pick from a year ago, my 17 minutes/game center who does a better job defending Duncan than anyone on the team, and any chance at bringing good young players into to the organization for two years?
I can't remember the last time I hated a trade more.

http://heartbreakplex.blogspot.com/

by Or Moyal on Feb 14, 2008 9:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not a Mavs fan, but I do agree with U...

If the trade does not go through, Devean George's exercising his Larry Bird rights will be a blessing in disguise for Mark Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks.

If the deal does go through, Rod Thorn and the New Jersey Nets will have basically robbed the Mavs.

This potential transaction doesn't necessarily increase the chances of Dallas getting to the Finals.

People forget that this same roster came oh-so close to winning it all two years ago.  And this very same cast of characters defeated the Mighty Spurs in the playoffs during that run.

www.xanga.com/five11nation

by kcbrett5 on Feb 14, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What about Diop?

My concern is what happens when Dampier gets into foul trouble against the really good centers -- Bass is a strong player at PF, but overmatched by taller centers, you don't want Dirk getting banged around for extended minutes and Juwan Howard?????  Please!

From the hometown of Bob Lilly, Long Ball

by Long Ball on Feb 14, 2008 8:49 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I was just talking to my dad about that

Dasagna Diop is a nice-sized backup center to have.  He's a fine shot-blocker, a decent rebounder, and nice rotation player with Erick Dampier.

Add Diop to a young pivot rotation of Josh Boone and Sean Williams in Jersey and you add experienced depth inside.

Like I stated above, if this trade goes through with the same players previously reported... Nets' GM Rod Thorn will have set New Jersey up with a nucleus of young talent and additional cap room once Stackhouse's contract expires at season's end.

www.xanga.com/five11nation

by kcbrett5 on Feb 14, 2008 9:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

so does dirk slide over to center?

when dampier gets in foul trouble...because if he does, that's a really really BAD for the mavs...

by Tuna Helper on Feb 14, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yes it is...
www.xanga.com/five11nation

by kcbrett5 on Feb 14, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The only way I consider this

Is if

  1. We take back our first rounders.
  1. We get back either Sean Williams or a NJ first rounder.

I can't put into words how badly we're getting robbed here. Let me put this into perspective: It's like Jerry dealing Marion Barber, Marcus Spears, J Ferg, Keith Davis, and 2 first rounders for Fred Taylor.
It's incomparably bad. Cuban and Donnie have gone insane.

http://heartbreakplex.blogspot.com/

by Or Moyal on Feb 14, 2008 10:59 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'd be ok with trading Spears.

I keed I keed!

You find out life's this game of inches, so is football. Because in either game - life or football - the margin for error is so small.

by Brandon Worley on Feb 14, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

here's the latest on the 'trade Spears' rumors

from Calvin Watkins at DMN

There were all sorts of rumors coming out of the Senior Bowl that Marcus Spears and Bobby Carpenter were on the trade block.

Well, Spears' agents thought that as well. They called the Cowboys during the Senior Bowl and asked was there any truth to the rumors.
Dallas, according to Spears' agents, said the defensive end is not going anywhere.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 14, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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