Good news/bad news for Tank; Ellis ready to start?

by Dave Halprin on Oct 18, 2007 4:45 PM CDT in News Comment 28 comments

The bad news – Tank Johnson will have to serve his full suspension. The good news – he can come back to practice, meaning by the time we play the Giants, Tank will have plenty of time to get familiar with the 3-4 and his teammates.

Tank Johnson is not exactly back, but he'll be allowed to practice with the Dallas Cowboys starting Friday.
The NFL did not reduce Johnson's eight-game suspension. However, the league cleared the defensive tackle to begin practicing. Johnson is eligible to return to game action Nov. 11 when the Cowboys play at the New York Giants.

I’m excited to see him on the field. I think he can really help us and he’ll be as fresh as the morning dew when he returns.

Hat tip to BTB-regular Burt-D for the link.

From Wade Phillips’ press conference today, it became very clear that Greg Ellis will get back his starting OLB spot, maybe as soon as this week. Basically, when asked point blank if Anthony Spencer would remain the starter, just after Wade said Ellis was healthy enough to take a normal role on defense, Phillips said he didn’t know if Spencer would start, that was TBD. He then went on to say that right now Ellis is a better player than Spencer.

I think Spencer has done a great job filling in for Ellis, but having both guys ready to go is a boon. I don’t care who starts, I just care who hits the QB.

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Ellis

Other than the forced fumble, which was largely the result of a strange alignment (both OLBs were lined up on one side of the defense), Ellis looked absolutely disastrous on Sunday.

I'm really scared Ellis stint at OLB this year is going to go bad. And I'd bet Wade is too stubborn to return Spencer to the starting lineup.

Seeing Ellis reminded me just how good Spencer looks at OLB. He's faster, more athletic, and just more fluid.

by theogt on Oct 18, 2007 5:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Ellis is much better

He gets much more pressure than Spencer, its not even close. Spencer might be good someday, but right now Ellis is much, much better and the Cowboys defense will be much better as a result.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Oct 18, 2007 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ellis is not better

If that is the case he would be starting already. Ellis is not much much better, not even close. Ellis has played spot duty and has made a couple of nice plays, but Spencer in a full time role has surpassed him. Spencer has 3 sacks, should have 4 and a ton of pressures. Ellis if started would wear down very easily. He should be best used as a situational pass rusher, not a full time starter. It will be a huge mistake starting Ellis over Spencer. They should keep him in on passing downs only. That's when he is most effective.

by Cowboys81 on Oct 19, 2007 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

thats not true

the reason why Ellis isn't starting is obvious, he wasn't in game shape and now he is.

The reality is Ellis is much better and you'll see the difference in our defense once he's 100%.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Oct 19, 2007 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's proof Ellis is better

from Wade Phillips himself.

"Ellis has been better," Phillips said. "The other guy is a young kid that's played well and come along for us. But Greg was certainly a better player going in. He's got experience. We know who Greg is. If he's well, and he's starting to get well, and we can put him in there, we will. We'll still get to play Spencer some and bring him along the way we wanted to."

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Oct 19, 2007 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You want evidence Ellis is a great player?

Look no further than our defense last year after he went down.

Spencer is great... a tremendous draft pick. Almost makes me forget about Carpenter (hey, we can't always be right, the odds are against us). But come on, gentlemen, we're talking a green rookie vs. one of our best defenders from last year.

Why can't we just enjoy both of them? Ellis will not wear out so quickly with Spencer sharing time, and having Ware, Spencer, Ellis, Hatcher and Ratliff in on passing downs sounds DANGEROUS to me.

Cowboys and Tar Heels

by DalaiLuke on Oct 19, 2007 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was

last year, this is this year. Ellis is another year older coming off a major injury. Chances of him returning to that form are very slim. IMO, it will be a huge mistake placing Ellis back in a starting role. He is going to break down. The way he is being used right now is the way to go. He can come in on the passing downs and rush the passer, not worry about covering a TE for the most part. The problem for him is that he is going to struggle in pass coverage. He struggled with this in the NE game. He will become tired and our pass rush will suffer guys believe me. Bad move, if Wades makes the switch. Go with the younger, faster more talented person in Spencer.

by Cowboys81 on Oct 19, 2007 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think its obvious Phillips knows what he's doin

just as its obvious Ellis is much better than Spencer at this point.

Ellis has been a very good player for the Cowboys for many years, and he still has some good years left in his tank, to say he's all of sudden worse just because of his injury is a foolish statement.

Spencer is as green as grass and should only be used as a situational pass rusher at this time which was the Cowboys' plan all along.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Oct 19, 2007 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is much to be said

for experience in reading offensive plays and Ellis is far more experienced than Spenser. Also he is taller and that presents some special problems to the offense when Ellis is in pass coverage. I like both guys and trust that Coaches will use them to maximum effect. This defense has improved with Ellis playing and Spenser is going to continue to get plays as well.

The most intriguing production I am looking for in this game is from Carpenter and Burnett. Since the Vikings want to run so much Ayodele and James will need to be rested some of the time. We are deeper than most teams in ILB where the Vikings apparently like to attack.

by lee3022 on Oct 19, 2007 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tank Johnson Question

Grizz (and others),

Seems like a lot of folks are singing the praises of Tank Johnson in terms of him being an elite NFL player. Is he? Anybody have an objective viewpoint on his college career and three years in the pros? His numbers are not exactly gaudy - 1.5 tackles per game, 9 sacks in 46 career games, 1 forced fumble. He's not extraordinarily large. What are his strengths and weaknesses - anybody have a real scouting report on the guy?

Thanks,
Ol Hickory

by ol hickory on Oct 18, 2007 6:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Tank isn't close to being elite

I don't think he'll even beat out Ratliff, but he's very solid, great backup and will provide much needed depth to spell Ratliff.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Oct 18, 2007 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He may start which will allow Ratliff

to play some DE as well, and Tank has fantastic athleticism for someone of his size I think he could flourish in Wade's defense.

Burt-D

by Burt D on Oct 18, 2007 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I doubt he starts

Ratliff is pretty good.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Oct 18, 2007 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ratliff is our best lineman

But he has too many responsibilities: the nickel, hopefully some playing DE now, and relieving the NT spot. He is basically a "starter" even if he doesn't start at the NT position.

Burt-D

by Burt D on Oct 18, 2007 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tank is athletic and skilled

at the combine he measured 6'2.6", 303 pounds and ran a 4.72 40 and a 1.69 10 yard run. He jumped 34" high and 9'6" broad. His 3-cone was 7.59. By comparison Richard Seymour ran a 4.95, Kevin Williams (Minnesota), who was a DE coming out of college, ran a 4.95 40 a vertical jump of 30" and a 3-cone run of 7.66. Richard Seymour last year had 40 tackles and 3 sacks. Kevin Williams had 36 tackles and 5 sacks. Jason Ferguson had 46 tackles and no sacks starting 16 games. Tank Johnson had 26 tackles and 3.5 sacks starting only 10 games. So yes, I think he can be an elite DT in the league. Can he play NT? The Cowboys must think so or they would not have signed him.

by lee3022 on Oct 19, 2007 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I had the same question..Is Tank any good?

At least we know he was part of a dominating defense.

by Blue Blood on Oct 18, 2007 6:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

From what I understand

he basically took on double teams to let Tommie Harris do his thing, and he was also a little inconsistent in that made great plays at times and disappeared at other times. But the way Wade Phillips plays the NT it is very much to Tank's abilities in that Tank is very athletic for a 6-3 300+ lb lineman as he can run the 40 in 4.7 secs, which is crazy for a lineman of his size.

Burt-D

by Burt D on Oct 18, 2007 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

In my mind there is no question Ellis is better

than Spencer at this point in terms of pass rushing and run support. I think Spencer has a high ceiling and has done very well filling in, but Ellis is capable of playing at a pro-bowl level. And at this point in his career Spencer is just a good OLB.

I forgot who it was I think it was Spears who said something like when Ellis comes in the game o-lineman start pointing at him and start chanting 98.

Burt-D

by Burt D on Oct 18, 2007 6:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I totally agree...again

this is starting to get scary Burt.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Oct 18, 2007 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ellis is the veteran

and is stronger on the pass rush right now. I am amazed at how well Spencer has done as a rookie learning a new system and position. On an even playing field I'm not sure Ellis can hold off Spencer next season. Either way, if I was a QB I would be nervous when I see Ware, Spencer, and Ellis shifting around on the other side of the line.

by bluewolf021 on Oct 19, 2007 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ellis and Spencer

I think Spencer will start next season, but if Ellis is ready to go, he's a proven commodity and should definitely start. It will be great to be able to rotate Ellis and Spencer. Having them fresher late in games is a good thing.

by APerfectStar on Oct 18, 2007 8:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Tank at practice

is a big plus because now he will be good to go when his suspension is up.

Wade said Tank played our techniques in the 4-3 at Chicago.

"The terminology is all different with each team. But whip the guy in front of you and go get the ball."

The more things are different, the more they are the same.

Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.

by OskieOskie on Oct 18, 2007 8:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget about Spears - Hatcher...

The comments in this section point to what a tremendous luxury we currently have with our front 5. We basically have 7-8 quality starters for the down three plus the two outside LB spots. THAT is the sign of an elite team.

That is an embarrassment of riches... and will allow us to keep fresh pressure throughout the game.

Spears/Hatcher

Ratliff/Tank

Ellis/Spencer

Ware ...

Canty ...

Too bad the caveman Carpenter isn't also mentioned here. Though he and Burnett make more than capable 2nd string guys. This D is solid.

Cowboys and Tar Heels

by DalaiLuke on Oct 18, 2007 11:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

unfortunately I think Carpenter is

going to be a huge bust. Just don't think he'll ever see the field that much outside nickel packages and special teams.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Oct 19, 2007 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate to agree with you on this one.

I keep thinking he's a slow developing guy... give him time and he'll shine... but the shine is getting dimmer and dimmerer.

Cowboys and Tar Heels

by DalaiLuke on Oct 19, 2007 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think in

time he will replace Adoyele. I'm not impressed wih him at all and it could become a salary cap issue with him soon. Carpenter just hasn't had many opportunities.

by Cowboys81 on Oct 19, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

are you kidding me??

are you actually watching the Cowboys play? Ayodele has been an absolute stud in the middle for us, he and James are the reason teams haven't posted a 100 yd rusher this season.

Carpenter will never beat this guy out, period.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Oct 19, 2007 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs