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Cowboys vs. Giants: Cowboys handle their business, dump Giants 31-20

I’m impressed. This edition of the Dallas Cowboys handles their business, twice in two weeks going on the road in the NFC East and beating the crud out of their opposition. When I looked at the schedule at the beginning of the year I kind of marked down this two-week stretch as a potential pitfall; a detour that could lead to another season going off the rails. That doesn’t appear to be in the cards for this Cowboys team. On the field, they’re all confidence and smiles.

I remember when Tony Romo was first getting going last year after we benched Bledsoe and John Madden remarked that Romo was the guy who comes into the bar, grabs a cue and runs the table, sinks the 8-ball and takes your money. He’s cool like that because he just doesn’t feel the pressure. He’s all confidence and smiles. And now the team has taken on his personality.

There’s a carefree attitude about this team, they have fun while handling their business. They have fun winning football games, but they are deadly serious in executing the game plan. Sure, they can get a little too loose at times and end up gathering little yellow hankies in bunches, but somehow they manage to fight through those and still win games. Getting penalties isn’t a habit they want to cultivate but throttling the life out of the team to stop them would be a step in the wrong direction. I’m sure Wade Phillips will have some choice things to say behind closed doors concerning the penalties, but even his reaction after the game to Kevin Burnett’s egregious mistake was subdued and less about punishing Burnett and more about learning from it and moving on. Wade Phillips is not one to wreck the great atmosphere he’s created at Valley Ranch by harping on the negative when so much is going right for this team.

Credit goes to so many different places it’s hard to list them all and do it justice. Tony Romo deserves his recognition, and his money; when the Cowboys need something to happen, Romo consistently delivers. Terrell Owens is happy, and apparently when he’s happy he’s unstoppable, or maybe it just appears that way. Jason Witten, Marion Barber, Julius Jones and Pat Crayton are key cogs in an offense that only trails New England in terms of explosiveness.

On the defensive side of the ball, the pass rush is really starting to come together led by star DeMarcus Ware. They caused havoc all night and picked up five sacks and plenty of other hurries. Bradie James is playing the finest football of his life, Ken Hamlin picked off another pass and continues to direct an improving secondary, and even newest addition Tank Johnson got a sack on the day.

But again, I’ve got to reserve special credit to the Cowboys massive offensive line, which is the true MVP to this Cowboys season. Against what most everybody said was the most imposing pass rush in the league, the Cowboys offensive line had little trouble. Tony Romo was only sacked twice and had plenty of time to pick out his targets. They could run-block a little better, but the job they do in pass-blocking has allowed this offense to finally realize its full potential. And that potential was a serious juggernaut in-waiting.

A sterling 8-1 record and a stranglehold on the NFC East have this team thinking about the journey to somewhere better. This Cowboy team is confident, but not too cocky, they know that the most important game is the next one. They're just going to have fun getting there. And once they get there, they're going to have fun winning it.

I noticed that a lot of the comments after the game talked about this win being another step along the journey.

"It's another step along the journey that we're trying to go through to get where we want to go," said Romo, who completed 20-of-28 for 247 yards. "A win like tonight just adds to your confidence. When you do something like this, you have a chance to do something special."

Even Wade Phillips is caught up in the euphoria of the Cowboys offense.

"We don't have a good offense, we have a great offense," Phillips said. "We were able to score a lot of points."

Tank Johnson on his first day.

"I was pretty rusty," said Johnson, who hadn’t played in nine months. "It’s good I got one good play out of the whole thing."

Tank is already been indoctrinated into Wade Phillips’ team-first family atmosphere.

"It’s really not about me personally anymore," Johnson said. "That’s over and done with. It’s about this team, the Cowboys and what we’re doing together."

OK, if we’re going to criticize anything about this game, it would have to be the penalties. Randy Galloway catalogs a lot of the action in this article.

"Dumb players do dumb things, that what’s Coach Parcells used to say," said Burnett, one of those Cowboys guilty as charged when it came to a violation of discipline and wisdom.

Indeed. Burnett is having a very good season, but that penalty was inexcusable. Bradie James was also guilty of a dead-ball penalty.

"([Brandon] Jacobs) told me he was gonna keep running over me and I told him he hadn’t run over me yet," said James. "It wasn’t much of a shove, but he went down in a hurry, didn’t he. I was kinda chuckling about his acting job, then I saw the flag. Oh, man, I felt real bad.

"But it’s the Giants, and they talk real brash the whole game, and they hit late, and sometimes you just think you have to get your shot in too. That’s not smart. I know that."

No it’s not smart. So far, we’ve managed to get around them – except for the Patriots games – but in the future, especially in playoff time, they could become a game killer. Best to get in the habit of not picking up these dumb penalties now.

Patrick Crayton had a good night on the field and manages to deliver another crazy Crayton quote after the game.

"We love playing on the road," Crayton said. "One, because you love coming into another man's home. It's kinda like an invasion.

"We're kinda like big dogs, with what we're trying to do. We're trying to come in, urinate a little bit, and mark our territory."

That about says it all.

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Hamlin and out new NT Tank

by Arkcowboys on Nov 11, 2007 11:54 PM CST reply actions  

the penalty that wasn't called

There has been and I'm sure there will be alot of talk about the amount of Penalties that the cowboys have been taking, especially the stupid penalties that the cowboys have been taking this year, but today the cowboys got away with a penalty that wasn't called and I couldn't believe was even picked up or talked about. The first touchdown that Romo scrambled and threw to Tony Curtis should of been flagged on the play, Tony Romo was passed the line of scrimmage when he threw the pass, it should of been ten yard penalty and a loss of down on the play. So when everyone talks about all the stupid penalties we took today, remember the one that wasn't called on us.

by Deke on Nov 11, 2007 11:55 PM CST reply actions  

I thought

from the replays that he was just behind it. Another step and it would have been over but I thought he was behind it. Though I haven't seen a close up replay of it to be sure.

by Tristan on Nov 12, 2007 12:03 AM CST up reply actions  

the ball was snapped from the fifteen yardline

Romo released it just inside the fourteen, making it an illegal pass and should of been flagged. We got lucky on that one

by Deke on Nov 12, 2007 12:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Heard on the radio this morning...

On his NYC show, Boomer Esiason said every single part of Romo's body has to be over the line, including the ball.  

Not just one foot, not just the ball, everything.

by Pete on Nov 12, 2007 9:32 AM CST up reply actions  

If that's the case Pete

Then it was a legal pass, becasue he was straddling the line when he threw it and the back part of his body wasn't over the line. Legal Pass. Cowboys TD.

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by Dave Halprin on Nov 12, 2007 10:12 AM CST up reply actions  

You Can Watch The Replay

On NFL.com, and if you carefully freeze the frame right as Romo releases the ball, you'll see he still has most of his body on or behind the 15-yard line.  After he releases, obviously his momentum continues past the line of scrimmage.

When I first saw the replay, I thought, "uh-oh, we got away with one."  But after watching the replay, it looked legitimate to me.

You can see the replay on a pretty large window here:

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09...

Freeze the frame at 0:26 mark.

One other thing to keep in mind.  When watching the replay, you can see the head linesman or line judge at the top of the frame.  He's standing right on the 15 yard line, and has a very clear view of Romo's pass.  If it were a penalty, he should have seen it.

Like you said, Grizz, it's a Dallas touchdown.

by kindablue on Nov 12, 2007 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Either way...

I didn't hear squat about it until the next morning - no one on the broadcast yesterday seemed to think it warranted a second look, and obviously the Giants didn't either.

by Pete on Nov 12, 2007 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Radio announcers immediately said it

Yeah the TV broadcasters didn't say anything about it, but the radio guys immediately started talking about it, and couldn't believe it wasn't being challenged.

by mlibbey on Nov 12, 2007 12:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Here in NY

all the radio shows are on it - "Mad Dog' Russo has been  screaming that Romo was over the line since the show started at 1pm EST.

Get over it, people - Romo putting the ball into the end zone was an inevitability at that point.

by Pete on Nov 12, 2007 1:07 PM CST up reply actions  

you know that how

if the penalty was called, it would of been a loss of five yard and loss of down, making it third and 15, not a guarantee for a TD at all

by Deke on Nov 12, 2007 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm aware of this

but I'm pretty confident Dallas would have punched it in somehow.

But, all the same - "the answer is MOOT!"  :)

by Pete on Nov 12, 2007 1:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Freeze Frame of Pass

Someone on a football outsiders discussion thread got a great freeze frame of the pass--it was clearly, clearly legal:

http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?i...

Tom Couglin in today's press conference indicated he believed he wasn't beyond the line of scrimmage.

An official was looking right down the line of scrimmage with an unobstructed view of the play.  He had the best view of the play of anyone, and didn't call a penalty.

This is a really weird debate.

by kindablue on Nov 12, 2007 8:37 PM CST up reply actions  

If it wasn't legal, the Giants deserve it

Everyone who knows football thought the same thing on that pass:  Was Romo across the line of scrimmage?  It is impossible not to have that reaction when you see that play.  If the Giants chose not to challenge that play and they think he's over the line, it's their own fault.  From what most are saying, his foot was behind the line, so it's moot anyway.  The NY media will complain about anything, but if that play shouldn't have counted, it's on Coughlin and the people talking in his ear.

by grapejoos on Nov 12, 2007 2:13 PM CST up reply actions  

From the TV replays, it appears his foot was

just shy of the 15 yard line, making the play okay.

These Cowboys reflect the character of their leader, Tony Romo.  Not only is Wade the perfect coach to follow (and contrast) Parcells, but he has the right blend of leaders in the locker room to make his style work.

Romo, Canty, James... these are just a few of the guys that are setting the tone and making this team fun to watch.

Kudo's to Tank - glad to see him get a sack.  He's got one more than Spears now?

Cowboys and Tar Heels

by DalaiLuke on Nov 12, 2007 12:08 AM CST up reply actions  

its not where his foot was

its where the ball leaves his hand, he looked well over the line.

by Deke on Nov 12, 2007 12:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree with you Deke

I think Romo was pretty clearly over the line.

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by Dave Halprin on Nov 12, 2007 12:13 AM CST up reply actions  

I can't believe you guys can find fault in Romo's

Game!  He's amazing.  His foot was perfectly placed one quarter inch before the 15.  Any other opinion is simply stupid and is just irrational Romo bashing.  And that is my humble opinion (not really)... but the game should be on NFL Network, and hopefully they'll add another camera angle and settle this critical debate once and for all in favor of those of us that refuse to see Romo faults, like me.

Cowboys and Tar Heels

by DalaiLuke on Nov 12, 2007 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

you're correct

guys like Deke will always criticize Romo and find fault when there is none. He just can't admit he was wrong about the guy.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Nov 12, 2007 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

but you do know

i was just kidding

Cowboys and Tar Heels

by DalaiLuke on Nov 12, 2007 10:23 PM CST up reply actions  

no, it's where his foot was

Just check the game on my DVR.  He toe was definitely short of the 15 yard line, which was the line of scrimmage.  The NFL rule book says the passer must be behind his line of scrimmage.  It's definitely not where the ball is when it's released.  The line judge was standing right there and would've called it if he had been over.

by DWare94 on Nov 12, 2007 1:04 AM CST up reply actions  

where the ball leaves his hand

that would make for a difficult ruling.  are you sure thats the case?  

by ab03 @ Blogging The Boys on Nov 12, 2007 1:41 AM CST up reply actions  

rule

"Passer must be behind his line of scrimmage."

Doubt it has to do with the ball.

by ab03 @ Blogging The Boys on Nov 12, 2007 1:43 AM CST up reply actions  

It all evens out

Kinda makes up for the phantom personal foul on B. James.

by Incredifan on Nov 12, 2007 12:10 AM CST up reply actions  

I think you are wrong

Well, that's not an accurate statement. How did you come to that conclusion? Fox showed, maybe, one replay of it and it was at a bad angle. That's a reviewable play and the Giants decided not to throw the flag and in this instant review happy NFL, I am sure if he was over, they would have thrown the red flag. I'm thinking it was close, but the Giants saw the replay and Romo was not over the line.

I did see a quote from Antonio Pierce that he was going to wipe the smile off of Tony Romo's face - I kept thinking about that quote when the Cowboys were running the clock out and Fox kept showing Tony smiling. Good job, Antonio, job well done.

I noticed Bradie's quote here too. It sure does look like the Giants talk  A LOT. Strahan, Madison (who is jawing with TO AFTER the Cowboys score a TD - dude, are you serious? Your team just gave up a TD, what could you be talking sh@t about?) Pierce, Jacobs.....etc. I think the Cowboys just got caught up in it. Burnett's flag was legit, Jacobs just did a Manu.....that was a weak call. I am surprised a football player would flop like that......pretty weak.

by huslinone on Nov 12, 2007 12:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Jacobs

must have learned that from some soccer players while playing on the picth in London.  That was a grade A flop

by 703Cowboys on Nov 12, 2007 12:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, good acting job

Bradie gave him a little shove to help him find his way back to the Gints huddle. No way that big fella falls down unless he's trying to get the penalty called, and he did. I love the defense's intensity, but you gotta be smart and not lose your cool.

by APerfectStar on Nov 12, 2007 2:45 AM CST up reply actions  

penalty

I thought he was over the line too.

Go Cowboys!

by brushpile on Nov 12, 2007 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Despite that penalty

Burnett had a really good game.

Burt-D

by Burt D @ Blogging The Boys on Nov 12, 2007 12:06 AM CST reply actions  

Two Questions for You, Grizz
1. When are you going to discard the whole Pod-Person theory and admit that maybe TO has bought into the whole teamwork/family atmosphere for real?

And,

2. What the Folk is up with the short kickoffs lately?

by Incredifan on Nov 12, 2007 12:14 AM CST reply actions  

In case you hadn't noticed...

The pod-person theory and T.O. buying into the family thing are one in the same.

I don't know what's up with Folk's kickoffs, but as long as he keeps banging the FG's I'm all good.

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by Dave Halprin on Nov 12, 2007 12:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh, I noticed all right

But at its base, the Pod Person theory is a way of saying, "This can't be true!" I'm saying, at some point, you have to accept that it is.

by Incredifan on Nov 12, 2007 7:51 AM CST up reply actions  

The Giants were kicking very short also

Maybe the wind? Although, the field goals looked alright.

by huslinone on Nov 12, 2007 12:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Funny

It wasn't windy in the area yesterday....

by Pete on Nov 12, 2007 9:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Speaking of Pod People

I think Plaxico was hurt more than he was letting on. He just did not look right at all. His face at the end make it look like he wanted to be anywhere but at that game.

by huslinone on Nov 12, 2007 12:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Couple thoughts...

I think Romo was cognizant of where his feet were in relation to the line of scrimmage.  From the sideline camera near the endzone you clearly see him sling the ball out awkwardly, a result of him making sure he didn't pass the line. Simply put, dude's got spider-sense-like awareness.

I felt I caught Roy Williams tanking on more than a few plays, but overall he played with great intensity.  If he's going to give up a lot of ground, he really needs to react to play more quickly.  I don't know if his confidence is shot or what, but he really doesn't get a jump on the ball.

Witten did a great job pass blocking, period.

The Giants D was clearly much fresher at the end, which restricted MB3's production.  JJ ran well early in the game.  Good stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_cowboys Pretty much required reading for any Dallas fan.

by oneinsider on Nov 12, 2007 4:05 AM CST reply actions  

A note on the O-Line

Agree w Grizz that the line has gone from being a liability to an asset. Remember Seattle last year when Parcells didn't want to throw on an off-the-street secondary becasue he didn't think the line could protect ? We're light years from that now.

This team now imposes its will on the other team and its starts with the lines.

Lastly, can't say enough about 2 'Rookie' coordinators and how they've turned both their units into dominating forces. They're especially adept at making adjustments - Crayton's big 2nd half opened things up for TO, while the secondary made NY's wideouts non-factors.

Gotta love this ride so far...

by tdships on Nov 12, 2007 4:39 AM CST reply actions  

The line

Looke a little overwhelmed in the begining of the game but caught on to the schemes by the second half. In addition to adjustments made to get the ball to TO and Crayton, I think that was the key to winning.

by dunkman on Nov 12, 2007 7:39 AM CST up reply actions  

That Crayton quote

was priceless. He sure knows how to take it to the limit. Man I'd hate him if I was on the opposing team. Big dogs urinating? lol who thinks of this crap, haha. I'm ok with his jabber so long as he backs it up and produces like he did yesterday.

by sublimezg on Nov 12, 2007 7:04 AM CST reply actions  

Better equip the bandwagon

... with the heavy-duty suspension, cuz the fair-weather fans are going to be piling on.

Great times for the long-suffering fans, though.

Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.

by OskieOskie on Nov 12, 2007 7:06 AM CST reply actions  

your quote says it all Grizz

when the Cowboys need something to happen, Romo consistently delivers.

So for all you fans, and you know who you are, start whinning and moaning when Romo throws a pick early in the game, just remember the man is clutch when he needs to be, and that INTs are going to happen to any qb, Manning threw 6 of them last night for crying out of loud.

Did any of you see Jacobs being interviewed after the game?? When told what Crayton had said, Jacobs said that Crayton has no business talking because he sucks.

Great bulletin board material if we see them in the playoffs.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Nov 12, 2007 7:32 AM CST reply actions  

if we see them again

It will have the same outcome, only the score might be a bit more lopsided. We won't hand them so many points thanks to dumb penalties next time.

Apparently the Giants can dish out the trash talk but they can't take it.

If we win the Super Bowl, then we owe Parcells a Gatorade shower.

by Nelson @ Blogging The Boys on Nov 12, 2007 7:50 AM CST up reply actions  

being a new yorker . . .

i hear the trash talking non stop: players, fans, sportscasters..really disrespectful of the cowboys and assuming that they'd win yesterday and "get back in 1st place"...so i loved last night..funny how none of my buddies are talking today...also caught the end of last nights game on local radio, the commentary was so sad, i loved it :)

not that this excuses the dumb personal fouls, but i can only imagine the nonsense jacobs, shokey, etc talk during the game...not to mention the late hits..so i can understand the frustration

by bkcowboy on Nov 12, 2007 9:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Time for the fines to start

I think its high time for the league to start fining these players with this constant weekly taunting and trash talking nonsense going on during these games, its total bush league. Big deal, you make a tackle and you have to get up at trash talk or taunt a player because you made a play, isn't that the reason why you're getting paid in the first place. I think the league needs to send some heavy fines to these players that feel that they need to shoot their mouths off during these games, First offese, $7500, second, 12,500, third offense, game cheque, that will soon stop this nonsense.

by Deke on Nov 12, 2007 9:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Deke, trash talking is part of the game

and has been since the game was first played. There is no way you can prevent players from 'chirping' all game, its an emotional game and its just going to happen.

There's nothing bush league about it.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Nov 12, 2007 9:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Diving

The NFL needs to fine Jacobs for diving.  The NFL should be wary of the league becoming like soccer or the NBA where diving has become an accepted (if not an encouraged) practice.

Derek

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Nov 12, 2007 10:28 AM CST up reply actions  

very true

its cheap and petty
i hate seeing that in basketball (aka flopping)

by bkcowboy on Nov 12, 2007 10:42 AM CST up reply actions  

agreed re: giants fans

None of them are talking today.  People here in NYC really bought into the hype on the Giants, I guess out of desperation.  They have now officially not beaten a team with a (current) winning record.  All they are saying today is that the Cowboys are much better and that the Giants suck.  I don't think the Giants suck, but what struck me is that they are all surprised that Dallas is so good.  

Green Bay looked really good in dismantling Minnesota.  There are a lot of tough games left.  But I can't remember a Cowboys team this good or the last time I had this much faith in them to turn it around when they trail in a game.  1995 was so long ago that I forgot what it felt like, and this team is just so damn likeable that I just love to root for them.  Even the Cowboys haters I know have a hard time hating them this year.

by grapejoos on Nov 12, 2007 11:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, At Least the Giants Fans

Are in touch with reality enough to admit that Dallas is good.  Even after destroying the Eagles last week, few Eagles fans have come that conclusion.  Although I disagree about the Giants sucking.  They have their weaknesses, but they are clearly at top 10 team in the NFL, and probably better than that.

About the Packers:  After we beat Minnesota, in Ray Childress' press conference, he said the Vikings were beaten by the best team in the NFC.  After Green Bay piled it on them yesterday, I wonder if that was their way of reminding him they had a pretty good contender in his own division.

by kindablue on Nov 12, 2007 11:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Awesome game

and exactly what I expected.  I saw the boys turn a corner last week in philly and all of NY's trash talk couldn't hide the fact that we are a better team.  TO and ROmo have found their chemistry at a perfect time, all of our role players step up when they need to and the gints shut down MB3 and our all pro TE and we still dropped 31 on them.  D stepped up to the plate and now we need to go scalp the redskins and let everybody know the boys are back!!!

by Billito on Nov 12, 2007 7:39 AM CST reply actions  

great game

I watched the game with a friend who is a big giants fan.  His summation was that the Giants were outclassed on both sides of the ball by the Cowboys.

Who is the equipment manager for the Cowboys?  I want to send him an email to ask him to get Tank Johnson a pair of pants that fits.  We almost saw a full moon whenever he got down in his stance.

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey

by Seanrude on Nov 12, 2007 7:55 AM CST reply actions  

big blue view

I was over at big blue view and ETVal was giving kuddos for participation at 100 comments durring and after the game.  BTB almost hit 500.  

Great game.  Bring on the skins.

by bluewolf021 on Nov 12, 2007 8:00 AM CST reply actions  

Reeves

Is it just me or did Reeves make everbody else look like they were walking down the field on that kickoff return that was called back.  Props for the effort in chasing him down.

by bluewolf021 on Nov 12, 2007 8:03 AM CST reply actions  

Where did you see that?

If he had world class speed, why didn't he get drafted  earlier than the 7th round?

by APerfectStar on Nov 12, 2007 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

USA Today sez this about Reeves' speed:

4.61 in the 40-yard dash

by dunkman on Nov 12, 2007 3:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Garrett on TO

"To me, you look at the fact that [Owens] is such a great competitor, and that's not a bad place to start," Garrett said. "And he's patient. He waits for the game to come to him ... and eventually that's going to happen."

Waits for the game to come to him?  What a lucky bastard Jason Garrett is roaming the sidelines with a happy T.O.  I wonder if Gregg Knapp will give him a call and let him know that T.O. wasn't always so patient with letting the game come to him.

by ab03 @ Blogging The Boys on Nov 12, 2007 9:38 AM CST reply actions  

I heart Jason Garrett

This man is going to be our head coach in no time if he keeps doing what he's doing, but I would think he's much more valuable as an OC - I love the halftime adjustments, love the fact that he's constantly featuring different WRs, and most of all I love the enthusiasm.

Joe Buck would just not get off the fact that Witten was nowhere to be found yesterday.  Well Joe, if you knew this offense (like those of us who've been watching all year), you'd know it isn't the 'Jason Witten Show' or even the 'Terrell Owens Show' every week.  With the Giants you've got Jacobs, Shockey and Burress.  Shut one of those 3 down, and NY is in a world of hurt - even with witten practically not touching the ball for 3 quarters, we still put up 31 points.

It certainly helps to have TO streaking down the field, but Dallas mixes it up better than most anyone IMO...

by Pete on Nov 12, 2007 9:44 AM CST up reply actions  

game

'just getting logged on.

How bout them Cowboys!!!  

Go Cowboys!

by brushpile on Nov 12, 2007 9:40 AM CST reply actions  

Sagarin Ratings Are In

And Dallas has moved into second place, now ahead of the Colts by a full point:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagar...

The Giants are ranked fifth, so beating them on the road was probably a real shot in the arm for our ratings.

Using this system and pending the results of tonight's game, Dallas would be a 13(!) point favorite against the Redskins.

The NFC now has three teams in the top five; we haven't seen that in a long time.

by kindablue on Nov 12, 2007 11:49 AM CST reply actions  

I don't see how the Giants are 5th

NE, Indy, Dal, GB, Pit

Those are the easily the top 5. Maybe the order is up to debate, but the Gints haven't beaten anyone with a winning record, other than the Skins at 5-4, and really they stole that game at the end.

by APerfectStar on Nov 12, 2007 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Sagarin Looks at More

Than just won-loss record.  I'm not sure why you'd pick Pittsburgh over the Giants at fifth, other than their record.  The Steelers not only haven't beaten a good team, they haven't even played one.  They have the 31st hardest schedule so far.

Look at who the Steelers have beaten, and their rank:

at Browns 34-7 (17th)
Bills 26-3 (19th)
49ers 37-16 (31st)
at Cardinals 14-21 (22nd)
Seahawks 21-0 (18th)
at Broncos 28-31 (16th)
at Bengals 24-13 (23rd)
Ravens 38-7 (28th)
Browns 31-28 (17th)

They've played only one team (barely) in top half of the league, and lost to them.  They have struggled against the Browns at home, at Denver and at Arizona, and none of these teams are any good.  Aside from the opening game, they've struggled on the road.  They're just not as good as their record indicates, because they're the only team that hasn't played a single top ten team all season.  They are good, because they've won a lot of games, but haven't really distinguished themselves when compared to the Giants.

The beauty of Sagarin is it looks at performance and not record.  So apparently poor teams like San Diego, Philadelphia and Minnesota are ranked pretty high, because they've played respectably against extremely hard schedules.

Sagarin isn't a perfect system, but it's a good summary of how well a team has performed up to this point in the season.

by kindablue on Nov 12, 2007 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Pitt has the #1 defense

A solid running game, and a Good QB. The Gints are not  as good as the Steelers defensively.  Lil Eli isn't nearly as good as Big Ben. I think Pitt could easily beat the Gints.

by APerfectStar on Nov 12, 2007 7:39 PM CST up reply actions  

If They're So Good

Then why have they struggled against bad teams?  The best team they've played is Denver, who isn't playing good, and they get beat.

It's a lot easier to have a solid running game, a good QB and a good defense when you're playing bad teams to make you look good...except when you lose in Arizona and Denver, and need luck to beat the Browns at home.

They're a good team, but aren't clearly better than the Giants.

by kindablue on Nov 12, 2007 7:52 PM CST up reply actions  

The Browns are better than Denver unfortunately..

The Browns were only in that game because of their kick returner.

I think the Arizona loss might have been due to the fact that Whisenhut knew Pitt's team so well, he drew up a good game plan.

The Denver game was a bad loss for them. I didn't see it, so I don't know why they lost.

And as far as struggling against bad teams, NYG only beat Miami 13-10. You cannot get worse than Miami.

Just my opinion, but I think Pitt is clearly better than the Gints.

by APerfectStar on Nov 12, 2007 9:45 PM CST up reply actions  

And the Beauty

Of the Sagarin system is it ignores biases like personal opinion, and is an objective examination of measurable results.

We can all rationalize poor play--I can point out the Giants were half a continent away, on a muddy field that wasn't suited for an NFL game--but the fact of the matter is the AFC North isn't a very good division, and their records are inflated by playing each other.  Just because the Steelers have run up a gaudy record in a bad division, doesn't make them a great team.  They're not; they're on the Giants level.  Slightly worse, in fact.

by kindablue on Nov 13, 2007 7:27 AM CST up reply actions  

If that's what you think

Then so be it, I disagree, but really I don't care enough about either team to delve into a deep discussion. Pats are the cream of the AFC, and Dallas has swept the Gints, that's all that really matters to me.

by APerfectStar on Nov 13, 2007 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I disagree

The Steelers have looked pretty good most of this season, especially their defense, but they have struggled on the road against mediocre teams. As kindablue pointed out, their schedule up to this point has been very week.

If they played the Giants at home, I think they might win, but at the Meadowlands would be a different story.

I'm not sold on their offense or Roethlisberger. They look good against really bad teams and defenses, but very ordinary against good ones.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Nov 13, 2007 9:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Better get a muzzle for "big dog" Crayton...

and get him on a leash before he goes and pisses on an electric fence.

by ImpactNate on Nov 12, 2007 1:02 PM CST reply actions  

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